Womb Transplants

[SweetSouls]

I’ve noticed an increase online in the discussion of the possibility of womb transplants for trans women, to allow them to be pregnant and give birth to children.

This is increasingly presented as something in the very near future, largely because of the success of womb transplants into women.

Is this at all realistic? Presumably the mechanics are slightly more complicated than ‘just’ needing a womb transplant, and will this become an ethical debate?

I can’t quite wrap my head around it - mainly because I’d never considered it achievable.

Not going to happen in our lifetimes. A TW's physiology is male as is their bone structure. This means their pelvis is too narrow. Pregnancy requires a whole system to maintain it and transplanting a womb isn't like replacing a battery.

It took decades to successfully transplant a womb into an actual woman, so the chance of being successful in a male are tiny.

Also, where will the wombs come from? A lot of women don't want their wombs to go to men, and would rather opt out of organ donation than allow that to happen.

I can't see how it would be given ethical approval in the first place. The effects on a child would be completely unknown and how are they consenting to it?

Just because you can do something it may not be right to do it. I presume there is a chance of rejection, potentially with a baby still dependant on it. I guess they have to perform surgery to implant a foetus after they've put the womb in then all children would need to be born through a c-section.

I guess even if it's not possible now it will be one day and probably fairly soon.

Anyone who thinks that a womb is all it t takes to make a baby grow is a misogynist.

It's the same thinking that has anti abortion types show the foetus as just sort of floating in space.

The woman the womb is in is just a vessel.

In all honesty I can't imagine this happening for trans women soon. As I feel the hormones etc needed to support a pregnancy are not present. how would the placenta grow for example? Can the uterus do that on its own?

I'm also not sure on the financial regarding developing this treatment. It seems very expensive.

No way will it be done soon!

Pregnancy is an extremely complicated process involving all sorts of interactions through the body.

How will the appropriate hormones be produced at the right times?

Will the male body react in the same way as a female one to give the foetus what it needs eg calcium from your teeth?

I'm sure there's loads more.

It's a very male perspective that it's just the womb that matters and to not worry about anything else on the assumption that if women's bodies can do it, male science can do it better. For a recent-ish example see formula. They still don't understand really what's in human milk, or how the woman's body automatically changes composition depending on environment.

Ethically, where to even start? Practically, there's more to successfully gestating a child than having a uterus. A woman's endocrine and reproductive system is complex. I don't see how the huge amount of medication required to maintain the transplant and to maintain a pregnancy could be compatible with growing a healthy child. But, going back to the ethics, if it happens, it won't be happening here.

There's no way they'd ever be able to do this, it's just not physically possible. A woman's entire body is designed to carry and birth a child it's not just down to a womb. The reason for these discussions is to blur the lines between trans women and women in peoples minds. It's suggested that this is a near possibility to solidify the idea there's not much difference between men and women's bodies. It's all smoke and mirrors, don't worry it'll never happen.

I had a look around for info - quite a useful article here.

www.livescience.com/60873-men-pregnant-uterus-transplant.html

For a start, they would need to do experiments in animals. What's the justification here? I'm not an anti-vivisectionist but I don't see the justification for making the animal suffer like this. Plus we have no idea of the effects on the human child of having a pregnancy maintained by artificial hormones.

And surely there are about one billion more worthwhile causes for medical research funds to be spent on?

The thing that worries me is that will these types of things take interest and money away from the much needed medical research into women's issues?

It wouldn't surprise me at all to hear it's probably easier, cheaper and more viable to gestate a child in a synthetic uterus in a lab than by transplanting a uterus into a male. And that would be horrific.

They're already trying this.

The bit that's missed again is the fact that pregnancy is not just about a womb. The interactions with the mother are again ignored. The foetus grows hearing her heartbeat, hearing her voice etc

The removal of the human aspect, the woman, no one knows what result that would have.

Just to link threads

Imperial College Womb Transplant Survey Redux www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3605548-Imperial-College-Womb-Transplant-Survey-Redux

And...

The Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act and Uterus Implants in males www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4186810-the-human-fertilisation-and-embryology-act-and-uterus-implants-in-males

As someone who had many uterine issues (pre and post pregnancy) IMO an artificial womb is more likely than successful transplant into a man.

Physiology of the pelvic cavity, transformation of ligaments, blood supply, clots and pressure, heart, kidney, lungs, immunity surpression. A women's body is significantly more robust because of the need to gestate. It is the feat of ultimate human physical endurance. And even more risky for recipients of organ donation.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48527798

Just a vanity pipe dream.

Well sure but they're nowhere near making it happen and it's an ethical minefield if they do!

I think if they ever do then women's time is numbered though.

@NiceGerbil

Well sure but they're nowhere near making it happen and it's an ethical minefield if they do!

I think if they ever do then women's time is numbered though.

We're surely closer to being able to create an embryo without sperm to gestate in a woman than to reproducing in uteruses transplanted into men though, aren't we?

You could put wheels on a boat and drive it down the motorway, but we've got cars for that so it would be pointless and impractical. Same applies to putting wombs in men: we've already got women with wombs, so it would be pointless and impractical.

The attitude that it just takes a uterus to grow a baby is another dismissal of what women's bodies go through. As previous people have said an entire organ is grown and others rearranged , in a pelvic cavity that does not exist in men.
Covid has highlighted that male and female immune systems behave differently, and the immune system is key in making sure the body doesn't reject the foetus.
Studies are also showing that just receiving blood from a previously pregnant woman can be fatal in some cases.
If women are cautioned against taking an ibuprofen or having a tested (but not in pregnant women) vaccine due to potential impacts on the baby it is in no way ethical to expose a baby to this experiment. I can't see it being allowed, it poses too much risk to the recipient as well as the baby.

Also is there suggestion of penis transplants for transmen? If not why not?
I believe I have heard of it done in the case where a man had one lost/damaged in an accident. Surely that is a more straightforward operation than a uterus transplant and could be much better than the current phalloplasty options which require the removal of large amounts of arm/leg tissue.

But regardless the idea being peddled that men and women are just base models with different attachments like a Mr potato head is ridiculous and we only have to see the detrimental impact of Testosterone on female physiology to know that's not the case.

The attitude that it just takes a uterus to grow a baby is another dismissal of what women's bodies go through.

I agree.

This is like an outtake from the Life of Brian scene.

Reg: Where's the fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?

Stan: I shall have a womb transplant.

Reg: And the endocrine system needed to sustain it all? You gonna haggle for that down the market? Buy a gourdful of slow-release foetal binding proteins? You massive twat.

Judith: Well how about we agree to Stan's right to want to go down the market and try to buy a gourdful of foetal binding proteins?

Stan: It's Loretta actually.

All: sorry, sorry.

John Cleese breaks character: Christ, imagine if anyone actually seriously came out with this shit one day.

I disagree that it is a pipe dream and I wouldn't be surprised if there are some attempts within the next few years.

As for the ethical problems, that's all been sorted. It's being sold as necessary healthcare for transwomen. They apparently suffer from a condition called AUFI, Absolute Uterine Factor Infertility and it would be discriminatory to treat TW with this condition any differently to any other woman.

Lots of money and research is going into this area in order for it to become a reality.

They apparently suffer from a condition called AUFI, Absolute Uterine Factor Infertility and it would be discriminatory to treat TW with this condition any differently to any other woman.

Complete gaslighting. Obviously males don't have a uterus. It's deeply offensive to women who don't have one.

Performing surgery that is beneath the level of cosmetic, which will result in failure at best, is unethical. These people already have working genitals and can have children.