Tuesday 9th March - could be a big day

[Xanthangum]

1. Helen Staniland and Glinner giving evidence to the Commons

1. Fair Play For Women VS UK Statistics Authority at Royal Courts of Justice at 10am

1. The Court of Appeal and Harry/ We Are Fair Cop - The Court of Appeal will examine the validity of the College of Police Hate Crimes Guidance

I wanted to start a thread where any major decisions or outcomes and links to anyone live tweeting or online footage. See you back here tomorrow!

I think that refers to www.pfc.org.uk/caselaw/Bellinger%20v%20Bellinger.pdf

@AdHominemNonSequitur

JE: Bellinger defines male and female in reference to marriage only. It cannot be used as a definition for other legislation /33

and yet it was used as the basis for the GRA....

How much do FPFW rely on Bellinger, anyone know?

JE: Sex is not an 'Hermetically sealed concept' in census law. It could include 'passport sex'. /34

Thanks for reporting all this. Much appreciated.

Jackie Weaver strikes! Claimant Counsel has disappeared and is now in the waiting room /35

@gardenbird48

I'm sure there are a number of groups of people that quite fancy not filling in the census, bereaved parents for example, being reminded of lost children, or women who are trying to keep their whereabouts secret for safety reasons (I don't know if they get any special accommodation for census purposes?).

This has come about because a group of people threatened to break the law and not complete the census unless the census was changed specifically to accommodate their exact wishes with the result of knowingly undermining the quality of data generated by a billion £ project - just unbelievable.

I have to keep my address secret from my abusive ex husband. Is there someone you can talk to at the census to talk about the safety aspect of this?

Sex is not an 'Hermetically sealed concept' in census law. It could include 'passport sex'.

no thanks, I'll stick to sex with humans

He's back! /36

Sia, that info won't be shared for 100 years: census.gov.uk/your-data-and-security

*JE: says sex can be a matter of social identification.

Judge: What's 'social identification' if its not self-identification?*

JE: says sex can be a matter of social identification.

Judge: What's 'social identification' if its not self-identification? /37

Not a hermetically sealed concept??

If ANY concept is fixed, it is Sex. It is quite a fundamental concept. We haven't evolved, and neither has our understanding. Not withstanding Clown Fish obvs.

@HamsterV2 absolutely right. The whole point of the census is not to validate our own personal sense of identity, but to provide the Government with the information it needs to plan services both nationally and locally. Answering according to your own "personal truth" rather than objective reality may not necessarily make a vast difference across the population as a whole, but once the data gets sliced up by age it may do, especially given the massive skew towards males in late transitioners. And if those tranches are then further divided up by area, the greater effect a small number of people answering incorrectly has on the balance of the data.

'Passport sex' sounds like a rather specialist interest (nudge nudge wink wink). Sorry for lowering the tone.

I am really interested in the defence. They are trying to get the fact that sex could be social, legal, or physical or presumably other things, agreed by a judge. Is that in ONS's interests, or the public's interest? Or just in the interest of ppl who want to remove sex from public policy & replace it with self defined gender?

What has the census been doing all these years collecting stats on nebulous porous categories? Have they always thought that? Even in 2016 they were saying sex was biologically determined according to fpfw evidence.

JE: sex can be formally acknowledged by the state as 'passport sex'. You need a letter from a doctor to get one. You can't just turn up at passport office and self-ID as female. /38

[quote ArabellaScott]Sia, that info won't be shared for 100 years: census.gov.uk/your-data-and-security[/quote]
Thank you. That’s ok. In a hundred years we will both be dead. I do panic over the stupidest things.

So a 10 minute Gp appointment then

GP phone call these days or a call with the likes of 'GenderGP'

In comments :
A letter which for £35 can be secured from GenderGP
So yes... self id

twitter.com/leakylike/status/1365609000876859393

JE: There is no such thing as 'legal sex'.
Judge says it means "sex as recognised at law".
Claimant says this means birth certificate or GRC /39

Thank you live tweeters and amusing commentators. I've enjoyed the updates so far... and, appropriately for a "sunlight" day, the sun is out!

JE: 'Sex' is wide enough to be covered by any document issued by the state. There is no 'sex act' that sets out what sex can be. /40

[hmmmm what's the GRA2004 then?]

'sex act'

Delurking (not original user name, you know the drill- penis beaker posh ham etc, etc), to say thanks for this thread! Been trying to keep up on twitter too but I'm running about like a crazy person today, so can't follow continuously.

Does anyone know what time Helen and Glinner are up or have I missed updates?

Perfectly understandable, Sia. I also don't publicise my address, I am sure many women have similar reasons - how many stalkers/violent exes are there out there? Lots, is the depressing answer.