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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tuesday 9th March - could be a big day

913 replies

Xanthangum · 08/03/2021 18:01

  1. Helen Staniland and Glinner giving evidence to the Commons
  1. Fair Play For Women VS UK Statistics Authority at Royal Courts of Justice at 10am
  1. The Court of Appeal and Harry/ We Are Fair Cop - The Court of Appeal will examine the validity of the College of Police Hate Crimes Guidance

I wanted to start a thread where any major decisions or outcomes and links to anyone live tweeting or online footage. See you back here tomorrow!

OP posts:
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AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 12:18

[So despite the public consultation on GRA reform and government deciding sex cannot be self-identified. The ONS says you don't need a GRC to have sex legally recognised because it can be what's written on any document] /41

Datun · 09/03/2021 12:19

There is no 'sex act' that sets out what sex can be

Excellent.

So this same judge can tell the MOJ to fuck right off with the automatic placement of rapists in women's prisons, on the basis of their GRC.

RedDogsBeg · 09/03/2021 12:19

@AdHominemNonSequitur

JE: 'Sex' is wide enough to be covered by any document issued by the state. There is no 'sex act' that sets out what sex can be. /40

[hmmmm what's the GRA2004 then?]

No discrimination on the basis of sex, the Equality Act, etc., I seriously hope the Judge is seeing right through this risible nonsense.
CriticalCondition · 09/03/2021 12:21

Huge thanks to those doing the live commentary - not an easy job. I'm sitting in my car after my jab glued to this. And enjoying the sunshine in more ways than one!

Datun · 09/03/2021 12:21

I hope they get to the bit that if sex is made up on the census (or anywhere else), then so is sexual orientation.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 12:22

Could someone take over formally live tweeting at 12.30?. Need to cycle my son for a school lateral flow test.

Xanthangum · 09/03/2021 12:23

3pm I think @Justanothernameonthewall

OP posts:
RedDogsBeg · 09/03/2021 12:23

@Datun

There is no 'sex act' that sets out what sex can be

Excellent.

So this same judge can tell the MOJ to fuck right off with the automatic placement of rapists in women's prisons, on the basis of their GRC.

Mic drop moment, Datun.Grin

Jeez the contortions, twists, backtracking and level of sheer bloody illogicality that is used to uphold this ideology never ceases to amaze me.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 12:25

JE: it is possible to have a range of answers [to what is your sex].

JE referring to Hansard now "I don't we're in Hansard territory are we" says Judge

/42

GAHgamel · 09/03/2021 12:26

@AdHominemNonSequitur actually doing the live tweeting, or copying from the live tweeting? I can do the latter, but not the former.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 09/03/2021 12:27

[quote GAHgamel]@AdHominemNonSequitur actually doing the live tweeting, or copying from the live tweeting? I can do the latter, but not the former.[/quote]
Thanks. Yep, Just copying from the FPFW thread

Datun · 09/03/2021 12:28

😎😎😎😎😎😎😎

highame · 09/03/2021 12:28

I'll help out but I'm always a bit slow. .Double tweets don't matter do they?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/03/2021 12:28

9s
JE: it is possible to have a range of answers [to what is your sex].

JE referring to Hansard now "I don't think we're in Hansard territory are we" says Judge

/42

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/03/2021 12:29

JE: Looking at Hansard debate on census draft guidance in 2019. It was contemplating that the answer could be self-identified.

Judge "this doesn't really help anyone" /43

teawamutu · 09/03/2021 12:29

What's the judicial translation of 'this doesn't really help anyone'?

highame · 09/03/2021 12:29

I have the sewerage company at around 1.30 lovely

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/03/2021 12:29

In relation to the answer that can be given it is up to the individual to decide how to answer the question. It must not be 'false'. [as long as the induvial thinks its not false] /44

Thingybob · 09/03/2021 12:30

@Datun

😎😎😎😎😎😎😎
BlushBlushBlushBlushBlushBlush
RedDogsBeg · 09/03/2021 12:30

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

9s JE: it is possible to have a range of answers [to what is your sex].

JE referring to Hansard now "I don't think we're in Hansard territory are we" says Judge

/42

What's that about?

Is the ONS Barrister really arguing that no laws in the UK have been passed based on sex?

RedToothBrush · 09/03/2021 12:30

A lot of census related stuff is planning. This includes monitoring the fertility rate and the likely number of children to be born in the next 10 years. So you can build the right number of schools, maternity wards etc.

In this respect sex is quite important because its about reproduction. Reproduction is reliant on sex.

Indeed the 1911 census is interesting. The government was concerned about the fertility rate so required all married women to specify how many children had been born to the marriage. This included saying how many children were still alive and how many had died.

There is a historical point. And there is a point about how and why we use services.

There is a point about monitoring change. We can not do this if we use new definitions. It becomes impossible to compare data sets. We can no longer see changes from 1911 etc.

This doesn't me we dont record trans identity. In fact its important it is monitored - but is monitored correctly to reflect sex.

If we don't how do we build for trans specific services (like need for medical services) or monitor how many people are 'out'?

This is such self defeating bollocks that is being argued in court.

highame · 09/03/2021 12:30

E: Looking at Hansard debate on census draft guidance in 2019. It was contemplating that the answer could be self-identified.

Judge "this doesn't really help anyone" /43

RedDogsBeg · 09/03/2021 12:32

JE: Census act says individual must not put a 'false answer'. so its ok as long as individual doesn't think its false when answering /44

Umm, seriously???

highame · 09/03/2021 12:32

OK so we have contemplation and dictionaries for the defence

Datun · 09/03/2021 12:32

I mean we always say there is no argument.

But you sometimes think a clever barrister could perform some creative, linguistic miracle, don't you.

But no.