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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Conservatives for Women

115 replies

Shedbuilder · 07/03/2021 14:45

Found this, earlier today — the Conservatives for Women website:

conservativesforwomen.org

Their proposals could have been written here on Mumsnet. I'm now, for the first time in my life, having to consider whether instead of just spoiling my ballot I'm going to have to vote Conservative to keep Labour and the Lib Dems out.

OP posts:
nellly · 08/03/2021 10:33

I would be willing to switch to conservative to save women's rights

gardenbird48 · 08/03/2021 10:35

You've been manipulated into shooting yourself in the foot over this. The tories have never truly held the interests of any group other than white wealthy men at thier heart and they honestly never will...

I find this quite insulting. I have not been manipulated into anything - it is very clear - if women can’t identify ourselves as a specific group we cannot advocate for issues that affect us disproportionately.

I resent this ‘Labour good/Tories evil’ narrative that some people perpetuate. The people running the country put themselves forward because they believe they can make things better, often at great personal cost. Many MPs could earn more money for fewer hours (and get far less abuse) if they worked elsewhere. If you don’t like the decisions that they make, talk to them or get involved.

ErrolTheDragon · 08/03/2021 10:37

I've never been particularly politically aligned - 'a plague on both your houses' and vote for whichever candidate seems most moderate and sensible. I hate the FPTP voting which polarises everything.

In this case, I'll wholeheartedly applaud ConservativeWomen for organising to get their house in order. I'll applauded any equivalent LabourWomen groups too. The green feminists bravely trying to fight a rearguard action against the horrible crowing over some I. their party explicitly wanting to destroy sex based rights.
The LibDems who...er...well... I can hope.

Shakemyhandy · 08/03/2021 10:38

what they've actually ever done for women?

You mean apart from giving us two female prime ministers one who stayed in power for over 11 years?

AdHominemNonSequitur · 08/03/2021 10:42

@Thecatonthemat

I wonder how it would be if the 51% just did not vote. Perhaps it would be clearer to see why we are in the state we are in, why men have no idea about women, our lives , our feelings, our priorities. Nothing about us without us.
Boycotting an election is not a great protest. Feeling disenfranchised? .. Give up your vote. I understand your frustration but that would be so counter productive.
Erkrie · 08/03/2021 10:42

Part of the reason why the right of the tory party wanted to leave the eu was because the eu prevented them from getting rid of statutory maternity pay and things like that

Lots of different people had different reasons for staying, and remaining, even within the Tory party itself. And the UK is not getting rid of maternity pay. So there's that 🤷

MissingLinker · 08/03/2021 10:42

@SinisterBumFacedCat

Never. Austerity measures over the past 11 years have so disproportionately hit women that it feels like an insult to put the words conservative and women together. Not to mention all there other policies.
This. The Conservative party do not care about women, they're just savvy enough to realise that TWAW is a vote loser. The definition of women encompassing males is an abhorrence but, realistically, more women are going to be negatively affected by another term of austerity, increased benefit cuts, lack of suitable carers allowance etc than they are by this.

And, as PP has said, that's still overlooking the very worst of the Conservative party.
Labour have made many poor decisions, with this and many other things, but I find it hard to believe that Rayner, Nandy et al are supporting self ID because of some deep seated hatred for women. I think it's more likely that the T has piggybacked on the LGB and many people haven't applied enough critical thought to see the difference.
We need a viable left wing party in this country. We need one which doesn't punish the poorest in society. Another Conservative government is not the answer to this.

Erkrie · 08/03/2021 10:44

find this quite insulting. I have not been manipulated into anything - it is very clear - if women can’t identify ourselves as a specific group we cannot advocate for issues that affect us disproportionately.

Yes it is pretty insulting.

Shakemyhandy · 08/03/2021 10:47

So to sum things up "You women don't know what you are voting for, vote labor, you won't be a sex class, have sex based rights or the right to debate and highlight whats happening BUT you sure as hell won't have voting conservative on you conscience.

Floisme · 08/03/2021 10:48

We certainly do need a viable left wing party. However I don't think the idea that Rayner and Nandy are hard of thinking rather than misogynistic is a very compelling argument.

Erkrie · 08/03/2021 10:49

So to sum things up "You women don't know what you are voting for, vote labor, you won't be a sex class, have sex based rights or the right to debate and highlight whats happening BUT you sure as hell won't have voting conservative on you conscience.

Yep. I think that covers it.

Shakemyhandy · 08/03/2021 10:49

Labour have no chance of getting in again until they change, they alienated a lot of their voters and are continuing to do so at increasing levels.

ErrolTheDragon · 08/03/2021 10:56

I wonder how it would be if the 51% just did not vote.

It didn't exactly go very well in the centuries when that was the rule, I don't think we need to repeat that experiment.

MissingLinker · 08/03/2021 11:01

@Floisme

We certainly do need a viable left wing party. However I don't think the idea that Rayner and Nandy are hard of thinking rather than misogynistic is a very compelling argument.
I know it's hardly brilliant but I'm inclined to believe that they are honestly doing it to "be kind". There are people who stand to make a lot of money making children lifelong patients and there are those using this as a loophole to abuse women. Politicians, however, are going to be largely supporting this because the prevailing narrative is that LGBTQ is one big happy family and, if you don't support the T, you don't support any of it. Whereas, support the T and you are the most progressive person ever!

If the prevailing narrative were to change, I imagine many politicians would follow.

SingingToMySeeds · 08/03/2021 11:03

What about the Labour Women's Declaration? They exist too!

labourwomensdeclaration.org.uk/

The Conservatives have been in power for the last 10+ years while all this craziness has been happening, and haven't done much to stop it. If you are naturally a left wing voter then better to vote for a change and put pressure on your political party on this issue, rather than throwing away your left wing ideals.

I agree with those who are saying you should not be villified for voting right wing/conservative either though. Trying to pretend that right wings voters are evil is weird. Everyone wants what is best for the people in this country and it is ok to have different ideas on how to achieve that. We need to stop the extreme polarisation that has occured in our political discourse and learn to listen to each other and work together even if we disagree on some points.

partystress · 08/03/2021 11:10

@ConservativesForWomen. I have never voted Tory in my long life, and would find it hard to now, but my word your website is an impressive piece of work and your members seem to have more courage than exists in the rest of the parties put together.

If you could find it in your hearts to get the unequal impact of austerity measures/ cuts to public services up there alongside the fabulous stuff on gender identity and sex-based protections, you would definitely have my vote.

ConservativesForWomen · 08/03/2021 11:11

Just to be crystal clear, we have no intention of telling anyone who to vote for, nor do we agree with every single policy of the Conservative party. But how does anyone think these policies ever get changed? Not from yelling from outside the party. This is why so many of our sisters in other parties are hanging in there; it isn't everyone's way of doing things, but it's our way.

We are single issue and our declaration is clear:

Women and girls are subject to discrimination on the basis of their sex, and that sex is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act of 2010.


Women have the right to discuss policies which affect them free of abuse, harassment or intimidation, and have the right to use the language which specifically refers to the anatomy of their biological sex.


Women have the right to maintain their sex-based protections, as set out in the Equality Act 2010. These include female-only spaces such as changing rooms, hospital wards, sanitary and sleeping accommodation, refuges, hostels and prisons.


Women have the right to refuse consent to admit males in single sex spaces or to allow males to deliver intimate services to females, such as washing, dressing or counselling.


Children should be able to access safe spaces and by removing single sex spaces and the ability to ask someone’s sex, that this reduces the ability to safeguard young people.


Women and girls have the right to participate in single-sex sports, to ensure fairness and safety at all levels of competition.


We believe that any individual should be able to dress and express themselves as they wish. However we believe that important distinctions must be made between women and girls, and those who 'identify' as such. If any person can legally be considered the opposite sex then our rights as women and girls can no longer be defended.

We condemn all attempts to undermine or limit the rights of women to self-organise and call upon our Party to actively support these essential freedoms, freedoms already enshrined in law.

Floisme · 08/03/2021 11:14

If the prevailing narrative were to change, I imagine many politicians would follow.
I imagine that too, but it doesn't make me think highly of them.

Shedbuilder · 08/03/2021 11:15

Everyone I know who's closely involved in the Labour Women's Declaration is in despair and several have said they won't vote for the party in the May elections. They've tried polite debate and it hasn't worked. They know of several GC MPs who are having to contemplate whether they will stand again after coming under immense pressure from within the party to silence them.

These are local elections in May. As I understand it, they are held every two years. So if Labour get the message and decides it does support women, and proves it, in two years we can vote Labour again. It's the only way of sending a message. If we tell the Labour observers at the polls what we've done maybe they'll relay the message back to HQ.

I cannot vote for a party intent on erasing my sex and my sexual orientation. I'm a lesbian. It's a double whammy for me.

OP posts:
Floisme · 08/03/2021 11:26

Do Conservatives for Women and the Labour Women's Declaration group ever talk to each other? Likewise Green Party GC women?
Is there any serious prospect of women working together cross party on the issues where they agree?

ErrolTheDragon · 08/03/2021 11:29

  • What about the Labour Women's Declaration? They exist too!

https://labourwomensdeclaration.org.uk/*

They do - please promote what they're doing!
I'm perturbed that under Events they're showing 'Our next event is a free webinar on Tuesday 20th October 2020: '... not even updating the website doesn't bode well tbh. Sad

ConservativesForWomen · 08/03/2021 11:42

@Floisme

Do Conservatives for Women and the Labour Women's Declaration group ever talk to each other? Likewise Green Party GC women? Is there any serious prospect of women working together cross party on the issues where they agree?
Yes we do talk to each other and we talk to lots of the other non-political groups too. We are part of the cross-party political group Women Uniting.

women-uniting.co.uk/

Floisme · 08/03/2021 11:48

Yes we do talk to each other and we talk to lots of the other non-political groups too.
We are part of the cross-party political group Women Uniting.

Thank you, I will take a look. I no longer feel aligned with any party so this feels like a way forward to me

WanderinWomb · 08/03/2021 11:56

@Floisme

Do Conservatives for Women and the Labour Women's Declaration group ever talk to each other? Likewise Green Party GC women? Is there any serious prospect of women working together cross party on the issues where they agree?
If you missed it is well worth watching the speeches on the maternity bill and see the parties that those wanting the word Woman are from. Was all apart from the liberal democrats IIRC Hopefully someone can link those threads or parliament TV , I'm "working" so can't at mo.
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