Supernanny - hanging out with the abusive dads

[Jeanhatchet]

Jo Frost (Supernanny) has begun advocating for the inclusion of "parental alienation" in the Domestic Abuse Bill alongside the vicious men who continue to abuse their ex partners by alleging this in court. On Twitter she is openly engaging with some of the men who regularly stalk, dox and abuse women opposing the term.

It is a term with no validity. It has been rejected by the WHO as a term for abuse.

Women do experience men turning their kids against them but .... that is part of an ongoing pattern of coercive control and abuse. They are covered in law already at 3.1. 76. Serious Crime Act 2015.

Supernanny is not on the side of women. When women disclose to Family court that they've suffered domestic abuse ... their abusers are learning to use "parental alienation" as a counter accusation. It must not become part of the Domestic Abuse Bill. These are dangerous men.

I wrote about the whole thing here if you want a look. www.jeanhatchet.com/post/supernanny-putting-women-on-the-naughty-step

I heard about this claim regarding parental alienation. I can see that some men misuse this but I don't agree it doesn't exist. I know two men, one closely, who lost or nearly lost their children to this.

I think a blanket rejection of PA is not right, and I say this as someone who experienced domestic abuse and coercive control and was abused by my ex through the court system.

I have seen this on Twitter. She keeps posting things like women can be abusive too.

I know that abusive parents do try to turn their children against the other parent but research by women’s aid shows that claiming parental alienation in court does not work if the parent who has been alienated is the mum but it has been used to allow abusive dads to have unsafe contact.

I really don’t get why JF thinks she has any authority to comment on this matter.

She’s a nanny ffs.

Most of the men I know are very good people who do have their child at their best interest (except the ones who believe in spanking - they always like to believe it make them a better parent)

@Mumteedum I understand you have men in your life who feel they haven't been fairly treated ..... but ....

The term as used by men in court is very damaging and backed by a worryingly dedicated, financially incentivised, growing number of therapeutic industry professionals. This is never going to be good for women who want to protect themselves and their children from further harm. If women allege domestic abuse they should be heard.

For me - if a man starts claiming his ex is crazy and keeps his kids from him ... I acknowledge that red flag. He's pretty much done with me at that point whomever he is.

@Blueberries0112 then those aren't the men I'm referring to.

I agree. Women and children are often hounded in the courts by a man they have struggled to leave- they should be free at last, but the courts facilitate further abuse.

The parental alienation term is a massive issue and is used by abusers to continue to control. I absolutely condemn anyone who supports the idea of this term. I've had my own experience on the wrong side of this and it meant I allowed dd to keep seeing my abusive ex even though he was horrendous to her. She won't see him now she's a teenager . I realised it was important I validate her experiences - I couldn't do this when she was young and I was worrying about being accused of PA -
Imagine how confusing that is for a child .

Great blog @Jeanhatchet and thank you for writing it

@ByeByeMissAmericanPie

I really don’t get why JF thinks she has any authority to comment on this matter.

She’s a nanny ffs.

Patronising much?

I agree absolutely that it will be trotted out as a counter to domestic abuse claims. I also agree women have to be heard. What worries me is children who are being turned against their non resident parent and the fall out for families. It does happen.

To me there is the issue of domestic abuse and further abuse of women and children through family court, with misuse of parental alienation as a claim by abusive fathers. Then there are non abusive fathers with children being emotionally abused by mothers and turned against non resident parents. It does happen.

What we need is an overhaul of family court. It does not work for anyone, especially abused women and children.

I always wondered if men start using the term “abusive” instead of crazy, does it change everything ? Because it is never considered abusive if you describe men’s behavior as abusive. Sometimes you do have to hear these men out and listen what they are saying and make decisions based on evidences . Because every once a while, I read the news about mothers hurting or killing their children. Even selling their child

Good blog post. Thank you Jean.

This bit is particularly worrying. The DSM seems to have been politicised and used in various ways in recent years that are harmful to women.

The group "Parental Alienation Study Group" lists over 700 members. Many of them are wealthy and/or powerful and they are determined to push "Parental Alienation" into the DSM-5 (The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual Of Mental Disorders) and also the "International Classification of Diseases". You can find a list of their members and these aims here.

@Blueberries0112

I don't want to "hear these men out" as a number of them have made personal threats towards women and are constantly stalking and harassing the women who oppose their "movement".

Of course there are small numbers of women who abuse but the overwhelming majority of perps of all types of violent crime are men.

Thanks @OvaHere .... that bit is so worrying. The power of the lobbying s terrifying which is why Supernanny worries me as she's more populist and voicing some dangerous advocacy for dangerous men.

I'm afraid the accusation of PA towards mothers is used regularly by abusive fathers, as is the issue of child contact to continue to cause distress. It's truly astonishing how many abusive fathers claim they are being denied contact by the courts, if you believed popular media you would think the courts are overly biased towards mothers, however speak to police, social workers and domestic violence specialists and the reality is very different, it's very unusual for contact to be denied, even under proven cases of abuse, which is a scandal.
There will be many friends, family members and co workers of some fathers feeling total sympathy for them being "denied" contact by an alleged spiteful mother, who would be horrified if they knew the real reasons why the mother felt so strongly.

I’ve not read the thread and don’t know what your referring too.

But I wouldn’t trust a single thing Jo Frost is saying. She’s done so much damage with regards to parenting practices. Anyone with a basic knowledge of child development would know what she advocates is a pile of shite.

There are many amazing well qualified nanny’s out there (I support a profession that is made up of mostly women). Jo Frost is not one of them.

There will be many friends, family members and co workers of some fathers feeling total sympathy for them being "denied" contact by an alleged spiteful mother, who would be horrified if they knew the real reasons why the mother felt so strongly.
Yes.

@Jeanhatchet

Thanks *@OvaHere* .... that bit is so worrying. The power of the lobbying s terrifying which is why Supernanny worries me as she's more populist and voicing some dangerous advocacy for dangerous men.

I agree. She has form for this sort of populist rhetoric. The whole Supernanny series I found to be also harmful in not dissimilar ways. She seems to have a penchant for taking complex topics and forcing very simplistic solutions.

The show she starred in was very bad for parents struggling with SN children due to how much she popularised her often quite myopic view of behavioural issues.

That's a whole other topic though!

My DH was accused of turning the children against his ex. In reality they’d been witness to her both being violent towards him, AND her having a months long affair with a close family friend and moving him in the day after kicking their dad out. The kids were and still are traumatised and will carry it with them for life. She still has no idea why her kids hate her. Bizarre behaviour.

To this day my dad claims my mum turned us against him. Couldn't be further from the truth but I'm glad we never had to argue the case.

"To this day my dad claims my mum turned us against him. Couldn't be further from the truth but I'm glad we never had to argue the case."

I'm sorry this happened to you but thanks for speaking out. Lots of children either immediately or eventually work out their dads aren't good people and they make those choices if the court and the abusive father allows it.

My dad and his side of the family thought my mum turned us against him. In actual fact my stepdad created a toxic, abusive atmosphere in our home and we were all shit scared and forced to call HIM dad. Things are often not what they seem when it comes to children in these situations and the upshot is that few people in positions of authority (but also in general) have good enough training to domestic abuse.

For me, frankly, it's a replication of the situation women are in with rape - men are innocent until proven guilty, women are lying until proven honest - and children bear the brunt of our ineffectual systems.

Also Supernanny is a horrible show