MOJ Prison Policy JR TODAY

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Just seen on Twitter.

Will post links

Hearing a lot of stuff that we knew already, but my blood is still boiling listening to this.

Anyone who thinks it's fine to lock males, some of them rapists, in with women who are likely already victims of sexual assaults, abuse etc at the hands of men, are vile fucking woman haters.

Oh, come on, Michelle. Being female right now is character building.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

KM: Risk assessment recognises 'anatomy' as relevant. Nevertheless there is no discretion about whether a transwomen with a GRC being initially located in the women's estate - irrespective of anatomy /23

I wonder if the point about 'anatomy' is because rape can only legally be committed with a penis (unless I am mistaken)? So if any intact male is introduced to a female prison, the risk of rape, statistically speaking, goes from 0 to not zero. If you then consider that around half of TW prisoners are apparently sex offenders according to estimates, the risk of rape is going to be much higher than if you added any random male from the population.

I wonder what is the level at which the risk of rape of women - who by definition cannot escape - becomes unacceptable under MoJ's policy?

The only positive is that women are mobilising in a way that hasn’t happened for decades. The more daylight the better.

Thinking about the discussion on the operation of the policy in respect of a rapist with a GRC. There is a concept in JR where a public body can be said to have “fettered its own discretion”. In other words they have created such a strict policy or interpretation of a policy or law that they have taken away their own decision making power. They are no longer looking at the facts of each case but just automatically applying a policy. I suspect that is the implication here.

Who was the minister at the time?

So, are transmen automatically put into the Male estate if they find themselves in trouble?

I wish I could be surprised at what I'm reading.

Seems yet another case where everyone plays dumb, pretends they have absolutely no idea any of it was happening and we are supposed to be grateful if it finally gets sorted.

How can anyone think it's OK to incarcerate a male fucking RAPIST in with women in a female prison? Just how? I don't get it!

This really is one of those issues that brings into sharp relief how women are just thought of as sub human props, undeserving even of a moments thought as to how something might affect them.

How many men sitting in judgement on this issue will ever find their mothers, wives, partners, daughters in prison with the real possibility of being locked up with male bodied prisoners convicted of sexual offences against women?

It turns out that judges asking witnesses who have disregarded the rights of women "How far are you willing to go with this?" is a very potent question. Because if they confirm what they've been willing to do (and to deny that would be perjury) people new to this issue are horrified. more on this please naticant

Time and time again I sit here reading updates from a court case having WTF moments. Where were the fucking grown-ups in the MOJ?

But surely now that someone is being asked to put their name to the statement "put rapists in with women" they will at least hesitate before signing our rights away???

wift: understand the concerns re triggering and distress. But where does this take us re balancing exercise? If argument is that in a female prison, how can there be any TW not at risk of triggering this response?

...........

essentially: ok, so yes we get that triggering, trauma and distress is awful for women - but the only way to prevent that would be to let only females in female prisons. Which isn't balance. Apparently.

Bloody hell.

This is the wishes and freedoms and rights of the male sex to have what they want at the actual physical cost of the female sex. And the female sex having a problem with this and justifying it is causing issues here because they're not considering balance .

And what's even moire sickening is the thought of all the female MPs who were warned of this awful situation in womens prisons-Marsha De Cova for one, and refused to do anything about it. These female prisoners barely have a voice-it is appalling what's happened to them.

hi, I post occasionally about these cases on social media with my lawyer hat on (so no-one challenges me because I keep it dry) .

I hadn't been aware of this one. Is there a dry "neutral" description of what the court has to decide that someone would kindly link me to please?

(I mean neutral in the sense that both barristers and the judges would all agree that this is the question to be decided)

Cases like this are beginning to make official bodies wary - ACAS hasn't renewed membership of the Stonewall scheme.

twitter.com/legalfeminist/status/1366782581786705929

@BoreOfWhabylon

Who was the minister at the time?

Secretary of State For Justice in 2019 was David Gauke (Jan 2018-July 2019)

Minister of State for Prisons was Rory Stewart (Jan 2018-May 2019) and Robert Buckland (May 2019-July 2019)

Rory Stewart as spoken out previously about Self ID and claimed (though did not supply evidence) that he was aware of "female prison officers being raped by transgender inmates". It's possible he was getting the details of the Karen White case mixed up.

www.womenarehuman.com/former-prisons-minister-says-female-officers-were-raped-by-trans-inmates/

It always needed to end up on the courts, the capture across the institutions is so complete.

What we're seeing is growing awareness in the legal establishment that the foundation of the legal recognition of gender, the Gender Recognition Act 2004, is fundamentally flawed filled with crap contradictory definitions trying to give something legal force that it should not have and thus the Act was always going to cause chaos down the line.

It didn't for maybe a decade while trans activists began to cotton on to the fact that an unprecedented land grab had opened up to them. When the chaos started to bite, a fantastically effective tactic was rolled out, anyone who said "hang on" got called a "bigot" and also was threatened by activists right across the captured landscape. This had been just about 100% successful until the courts got involved and started to ask "what does this mean?", "how are you seeking to apply this?", etc, and now a complete shitshow is being revealed.

This should lead to an investigation of stonewalls influence in government.

@Myneighboursdomyheadin
fairplayforwomen.com/why-female-inmate-suing-government-transgender-prisoners/

Posting to keep on this forum to get the final ruling - which I will be emailing to all the craven politicians in Ireland who ignored my last email. If it is ignored again, we will have to look at getting a journalist to probe it. But I fear we are a lost cause - even the Keira Bell judgement has had little impact on public awareness here in Woke Central.

and that, I assume is because ACAS is supposed to be neutral. I wish all the public bodies would finally get it

They should finish tomorrow

and thus the Act was always going to cause chaos down the line.

A few people in parliament said this at the time, but they were ignored as it was only ever supposed to apply to about 5000 people of both sexes.

Thanks CaveMum