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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

COVID test consent forms asking for gender

67 replies

accessorizequeen · 28/02/2021 12:26

I’ve just had to complete forms for my dc at two different secondary schools to consent for them to receive COVID testing. One form asked for Gender and the other for Gender at birth. Neither asked for sex. Can anyone suggest the best way to raise my objection to this conflation of gender with sex. The data is not being recorded properly and there’s no such thing as gender at birth. Who would be behind the form design?

OP posts:
FannyCann · 01/03/2021 18:56

The hospital lateral flow tests that we have to do ask for gender when you log on to record your result. We have all had a personalised Covid risk assessment which starts with recording your age and deducting five years for being female as females are at lower risk than males (there are then additional scores for things like ethnicity and medical problems to arrive at a final score "Covid age").
So every time I fill it in I tick "other" for gender and then in the free text box I write "sex = female". Sometimes if I have the energy I have a little rant in the final free text box where you can record any problems.

It's ridiculous.

PheasantPlucker1 · 01/03/2021 19:33

My DC school have the same gender question, with the options of male and female.

I have emailed to give consent and explained why I can not sign the form but I am so sick of it now!

How could gender be in anyway relevant to a vaccine for children? Angry

Seventytwo · 01/03/2021 19:54

The whole thing is maddening. I make a habit of writing something along the lines of “gender is a social construction and is therefore irrelevant here; my biological sex is female” but it’s exhausting and makes me feel like a bit of a prat. I’m just hoping that if enough people keep challenging this stuff, organizations will start to think twice about defaulting to “gender” on their forms.

MedusasBrandyButter · 01/03/2021 19:57

Crossed out gender and wrote in sex.

If you want to have a chance to do this with the census (for this reason: fairplayforwomen.com/why-are-women-fighting-back-against-the-census/), you can still request a paper form at census.gov.uk/en/request/paper-questionnaire/enter-address/

Original poster
accessorizequeen · 01/03/2021 20:05

@peak2021

Covid 19 has killed a higher percentage of men. So knowing gender at birth (if you want to use that phrase) is important. To know how good the vaccines are in keeping people out of hospital (men or women).
That’s a higher percentage of biological males, not necessarily those who would identify with a male gender. If the data is important to collect, they need to collect it accurately and they’re not if they ask for gender.
OP posts:
SteelMack · 01/03/2021 20:10

Are you literally looking for problems where there are none? Just tick the box, whatever the terminology!

Hadalifeonce · 01/03/2021 20:12

I had this on DD's consent form. Luckily the answer box was able to handle me putting
Sex = female

BoeotianNightmare · 01/03/2021 20:18

we are being left no way to be women other than by signing up for stereotypes.

That really hit home for me. Thanks for saying it like that.

PheasantPlucker1 · 01/03/2021 20:39

SteelMack which box?

I have 4dc, none of whom have ever told me they have a gender, so which do I pick?

How do you choose?

SteelMack · 01/03/2021 20:43

@PheasantPlucker1

SteelMack which box?

I have 4dc, none of whom have ever told me they have a gender, so which do I pick?

How do you choose?

I assume you changed their nappies when they were babies? So you'll know the answer to:

Penis = male
Vulva = female

Wannabangbang · 01/03/2021 20:44

Does it really matter, in the great scheme of things! I have a trans child, so sex at birth makes sense as everyone is assigned a sex a birth. Best way of wording it and suits everyone.

SteelMack · 01/03/2021 20:47

@Wannabangbang

Does it really matter, in the great scheme of things! I have a trans child, so sex at birth makes sense as everyone is assigned a sex a birth. Best way of wording it and suits everyone.
This is my point!! People should stop making problems where there aren't any. FFS we have enough trouble in this world without creating imaginary issues.
PheasantPlucker1 · 01/03/2021 20:50

SteelMack thats sex.

Obviously I know my childs sex, and if they asked that I could answer easily. But they didnt,they asked for gender.

Can you define the genders?

SteelMack · 01/03/2021 20:55

@PheasantPlucker1

SteelMack thats sex.

Obviously I know my childs sex, and if they asked that I could answer easily. But they didnt,they asked for gender.

Can you define the genders?

I know the difference between sex and gender, however, when we're in crisis as a nation and everyone is trying their best to navigate the unknown, can't people let stuff like this go?? I assume they really want sex cos it'll be to do with biological makeup and research of how covid affects, so yes they use the wrong wording by calling it gender, but the the fuck does it matter?
ButterflyBitch · 01/03/2021 20:59

No ones sex is assigned at birth, it is observed. Children can not be trans. They can be confused but they’re not trans.
If they want to know sex then they need to ask that question. There’s fuck knows how many sodding genders now so putting gender instead of sex is bullshit. Words and the definition of them matter. These aren’t imaginary issues, they’re important, especially when it comes to the rights and safety of women and children. So yes it fucking matters.

PheasantPlucker1 · 01/03/2021 21:02

SteelMack its a bad idea to sign any forms with incorrect information on, and its an incredibly bad idea to sign medical forms with incorrect information on.

Especially during a pandemic.

Wannabangbang · 01/03/2021 21:04

Typical mumsnet Grin doesn't faze me one bit love. My child wasn't confused they are 19 now and still very much of the same belief of whom they want to be. Everyone in RL has excepted him so that's all that matters. People like you are closed minded and it makes you no feminist that you insult those that are trans.

Wannabangbang · 01/03/2021 21:06

What's a covid test form got to do with safety of women anyway? I don't get it. In other circumstances i would understand some of what you are saying but in context to this issue no.

PheasantPlucker1 · 01/03/2021 21:07

No one on this thread has insulted transpeople though, have they?

Not having a gender is in no way a threat or insult to you or your gender, its just differing beliefs.

Wannabangbang · 01/03/2021 21:16

there's fuck knows how many genders insulting. There's only 2 male and female. Trans people are either female or male

MichelleofzeResistance · 01/03/2021 21:19

People like you are closed minded and it makes you no feminist that you insult those that are trans.

Oh don't be silly.

It's closed minded to insist that everyone must have a gender identity whether or not they agree with one, and that they can't define themselves by sex/sex and gender are all muddled up. Not everyone thinks like that. Not everyone holds this belief. Why are you intolerant and closed minded to diversity of belief?

No one here is arguing that gender identity should not be present: it's the compulsion that sex must be replaced by it instead of different beliefs being able to exist tolerantly side by side. Either inflicting one way of viewing the world on others is wrong and intolerant for everyone and everyone's personal choice of identity and language matters, or it isn't. Which is it?

Talking about sex and women's right to define themselves is hardly 'insulting' to trans people is it? How exactly is this being insulting? It's really rather insulting to women to suggest they should erase themselves and their choices and identities isn't it? Erasing people and being intolerant of their identities is hardly a good thing. That does include women.

Isolatedizzy · 01/03/2021 21:22

I've requested a paper census on the back of this thread so thank you.

Original poster
accessorizequeen · 01/03/2021 21:38

I started the thread because I’m concerned that the wrong data is being collected for 10 million school children. We don’t even know why it’s being collected. The same issue is happening with the upcoming census - the conflation of sex and gender AND not collecting data on sex observed at birth. That’s vital data when it comes to tracking information about males, females and Covid. Nothing to do with trans.

OP posts:
DaisiesandButtercups · 02/03/2021 07:23

The online form I was sent by my DC’s school asked for gender

Male
Female
Non binary

It is clear to me from the use of the word gender and the inclusion of non binary as an option that they are not referring to the medically useful information and protected category of sex. There was no opt out and no separate question for sex. My children have never told me that they have a gender identity. Should I ask them to do some deep introspection and find one? Should an 11 year old be asked to spend time working this out? What is the point of asking them to for a covid test consent form? I believe it is likely against GPDR to ask for irrelevant information. It is certainly an imposition of a belief held by a powerful minority on the majority.

merrymouse · 02/03/2021 07:30

If schools are using a variety of terms they presumably don’t know why they are gathering the information.

Is that also a GDPR issue?

I don’t know why sex or gender would be relevant to consent.

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