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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

‘No Trans Olympian’ List of women and girls disadvantaged in sport - resource thread

162 replies

NotBadConsidering · 24/02/2021 10:08

I’m absolutely sick of the whole “no trans Olympian” argument, which completely fails to acknowledge the hundreds of women and girls already disadvantaged at non-Olympic levels. This post is a more detailed, more researched variation of a post I’ve made before and is not extensive.

Terri Miller and Andraya Yearwood


When these two athletes were allowed to compete in Connecticut state high school athletics, every girl who participated had their place lowered by one or two in every competition these in which athletes took part.

These are the results from 2018:

www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?event_id=458&do=news&news_id=534718

Note the names of all the girls whose places were lowered, not just those whose places were lowered from the winners’ podium. Note also the names Shanea Calhoun and Shayla Wallace, the record holders for the 100m and 200m respectively.

Here are the 2019 results:

www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?event_id=458&do=news&news_id=578633

A few things to note here. Note the new record holder who has erased those names from above...
Also note that by good fortune, Chelsea Mitchell won the final because Terri Miller false-started. Some justice there.

A special mention to Selina Soule whose name appears and has been brave enough to speak out against the injustice:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=3DsejTFZQ7k

This list of affected girls is not comprehensive. It doesn’t include qualifying meets, lower school events, indoor events etc.

CeCe Telfer

Telfer competed in the women’s 400m hurdles in the Division II (two) NCAA Championships in 2019.

Here are the results from 2018 where Telfer doesn’t appear:

fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/track_outdoor_champs_records/2018/D2Women.pdf

Note the name Minna Sveard who finished 8th with a time of 1.02.54. Now look at the results from 2019:

fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/track_outdoor_champs_records/2019/D2Women.pdf

All of these women had their places lowered by one. And look at Minna Sveard. Worked hard over the year to knock 3 seconds off her time to come 2nd...behind Telfer.

Hannah Mouncey AFL

Aussie rules has 18 players on each side. When Hannah Mouncey was allowed to play in the lower leagues, one of Mouncey’s teammates sat on the bench each game. Maybe another didn’t make the squad because their place on the bench was taken. All of Mouncey’s teammates were disadvantaged by having to share changing facilities. All of Mouncey’s opponents were disadvantaged by having to tackle Mouncey. Then multiply that by how many teams are in that league. Then add the umpires who were placed in a compromising legal position should any serious injury had happened to a woman. This is hundreds of women. There are too many to find to acknowledge individually.

Hannah Mouncey Handball

When Mouncey switched to handball, a woman didn’t get selected to represent Australia at the 2018 Asian championships because Mouncey was in the squad. A woman who made the squad didn’t get to start, because Mouncey started all 6 games. All of these women were disadvantaged by having to share changing facilities with Mouncey, something they complained about, according to Mouncey. Mouncey also played handball for a club in Melbourne.

I have found some of the names of the Australian women’s handball squad that played in the Asian Championships in 2018 but it isn’t comprehensive.

Rachel McKinnon/Veronica Ivy Track Cycling

When McKinnon (as was known then) won at the Masters cycling championships, every woman below had their place moved down by one.

www.cyclingmasters.com/site/results/450-f35-39-sprint-final-result-2019

Dawn Orwick missed out on gold. Kersten Herup Sovang missed out on silver.

www.cyclingmasters.com/site/results/385-f35-39-sprint-qualifying-round-result-2019

Amber Walsh didn’t get the chance to race for bronze.

Laurel Hubbard Weightlifting

When Laurel Hubbard, a middle aged transwoman whose wealthy family owns a cereal company in New Zealand, won weightlifting gold in Samoa, Feagaiga Stowers, an 18 year old indigenous Samoan woman, a survivor of abuse, was denied gold at her home games. Every other woman who finished below Hubbard had their place lowered by one.

www.oceaniaweightlifting.com/Portals/0/results/owf-results/2019PG.pdf?ver=2019-07-18-123626-010

The women affected were (page 41): Feagaiga Stowers, Iuniarra Sipaia, Charisma Amoe Tarrant, Mamuel Mwareow, Helen Anastasia Seipua.

The New Zealand team took 8 weightlifters to those games, 4 men and 4 women. Hubbard was counted as one of the latter. Which meant there was a woman left home back in NZ who didn’t get the chance to compete at the Pacific games. Weightlifters have to compete at a number of certain events to qualify for the Olympics.

Maxine Blythin Cricket

When Maxine Blythin won Kent Women’s cricketer of the year, someone else didn’t. When Blythin plays on the women’s team, either local or county, a woman is relegated to 12th woman. When Blythin smashes a smaller, lighter ball over a closer boundary rope, the women who are bowling to Blythin have their bowling averages increased. This is scores of women. It’s hard to find all of these women, but I found one match summary of a game when Blythin scored 152 not out. The bowlers all had very high runs scored against them.

www.play-cricket.com/website/results/3863705

These bowlers had their bowling averages and likely their confidence blown out by Blythin hitting 22 boundaries. So an acknowledgment of Ellen Burt, Megan Belt, Eleanor Monk, Naomi Woods, Bethan Harvey, Natasha Sole, and Hollie Young of St Lawrence and Highland Court first XI.

I can’t find who was runner up in Kent Women’s cricketer of the year.

Please feel free to add examples of ANY level of sport. This is hundreds of women and girls negatively affected by just a handful of non-Olympian trans athletes.

These women and girls matter.

OP posts:
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xalo · 19/12/2022 15:30

So Brittney is actually above average height in the men's game...

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MLander · 19/12/2022 21:31

Help needed new statement on women's sport in Olympics, please
The Mail had an article on this

"The new statement is presented as a clarification of the existing framework. It reads, at least in part, as an attempt to resolve the main criticisms levelled against the previous guidelines, which also angered women's groups and members of the scientific and medical communities. It also says that input from scientific and medical experts should be considered along with human rights advocates when setting eligibility criteria." It appears it is guidance for individual sports.
www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-11550075/Olympic-chiefs-introduce-monumental-transgender-guidelines-elite-womens-sport-fair.html
"The new statement says: 'Principle 4 [fairness] recognises that sports organisations may at times need to issue eligibility criteria for sex-segregated competition to maintain a fair and proportionate distribution of competitive advantages among participants.
It also recognises the particular importance of advancing equality for women in sport and preserving fair and meaningful competition for elite women athletes, which may require criteria that limit eligibility in some cases. (The new statement ) 'acknowledges that testosterone may be an important factor shaping performance in elite athletes in certain sports' but adds that testosterone alone is too crude a determinant of an athlete's eligibility. Instead it says any criteria should be based on robust data drawn from the athlete group being regulated – i.e. trans women in their case – and should take into account the specific demands of an individual sport."

I can't find anything on this on any other news media except for the original article in which this was published (British Journal of Sports Medicine on 16th December 2022) as I always go back to the origin of any story - but it needs a subscription to read the whole thing
bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2022/12/16/bjsports-2022-106386.full

I no longer have access to Open Athens (and am not going to pay £33 to read it!) - can anyone else find out more about this for me please?

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Truthlikeness · 19/12/2022 21:46

Jon Pike on Twitter has been posting a lot about this today. I believe he said the full document is not yet open access and he is calling for it to be made public.

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Helleofabore · 31/12/2022 14:53

ontariomasters.ca/were-back-first-indoors-in-two-years/

Tiffany Newell set a Canadian female masters 40-45 year old record for the indoor 5000m and was just a second off setting new record for 800m.

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SinnerBoy · 31/12/2022 15:47

This is the issue which first sparked my interest. I've a 9 year old daughter and a few years back, we'd been trying to find a sport she liked. I did some online research on how to get girls interested in sport.

The first was a "Why bother, Rachel McKinnon" etc. I was pretty dumbstruck, I have to say. American high school boys break women's Olympic records all the time, so I see the inclusion of TW, at the expense of women hugely unfair, not to mention cheating.

All of them are mediocre in the men's events, then come and start "smashing records." I think it was @Binturong, on another site, who first alerted me to the following website:

boysvswomen.com/#/

Apologies if it's already been posted.

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AlecTrevelyan006 · 31/12/2022 15:53
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Helleofabore · 01/01/2023 14:18

Marjorie Roome

Male competing in female masters indoor rowing category and setting British Masters female records in each age bracket they move through.

Now though, they have taken up male outdoor rowing and competes in both. In their 70s.

twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1609486406803406849?s=46&t=uBzScI2KIK9EO8QBYaksKg

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Helleofabore · 05/01/2023 18:04

Anne Andres Canadian powerlifting record holder in bench. Who has won 8 out of 9 competitions for the past 4 years (I have not checked this).

This is a video of them complaining why are 'women' so bad at powerlifting. Even this individual's son is showing a better ratio of lifting. Hmm

twitter.com/icons_women/status/1610526820516114433?s=20&t=ht6pZDGrbNXNLQa7Z_cNNg

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Helleofabore · 05/01/2023 18:09

Outsports have published a list this week of 'trans women' national or international winners.

They don't want anyone to forget to celebrate these wins..... well, nor do I.

www.outsports.com/trans/2022/3/1/22948400/transgender-trans-athlete-championship-national-world-title

New names(may be repeats)

Juniper Simonis
The roller derby athlete has won multiple World Championships with the Women’s Flat Track Derby Association. She was featured on The Trans Sporter Room podcast in 2019.

Jamie Hunter
The billiards player won her first major ranking event when she took the 2022 US Women’s Snooker Open title.

Victoria Monaghan
Monaghan won the New Zealand Open darts championship in 2022 and is the first out trans woman to compete in the World Championships. She was previously a ranked national player in the male category.

JayCee Cooper
Cooper won the women’s 2019 national championship for bench press in the super heavyweight division.

Lana Lawless
In 2008, Lawless won the Long Drivers of America competition, hitting a 254-yard drive against a strong headwind wind in the final round, winning a $12,500 prize.

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NecessaryScene · 05/01/2023 18:21

I love the plea in there:

And if we missed anyone — or if you know of any trans men who have won national or international competitions in the male category — please do let us know.

They seem to be having some trouble filling in the companion article.

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Helleofabore · 05/01/2023 18:23

Yes. They expect to find transitioned female national or international champions…

Will it ever sink in?

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IcakethereforeIam · 05/01/2023 18:48

Sorry, this is a little off thread and as ihrtft might be covered up thread. But I've just come across this and felt it needed highlighting. A, fwoabw, puff piece on the tw fell runner who was jailed, in a women's prison, for stabbing and permanently disabling a man.

www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/17/jailed-transgender-fell-runner-thought-uk-athletics-was-trying-to-kill-her

He barely gets a mention. He is Ralph Knibbs. He played Rugby Union for Bristol. He could have played for England but he refused to tour South Africa. He is black. He suffered a stroke and severe nerve damage in the attack, which also has cost him some sight in each of his eyes. Imagine if it had happened the other way round. Honestly, fuck the Guardian.

There is more in the article about the sporting achievements of the tw that he put down to training and not the fact that he is a man. Women eh! Just not training hard enough Angry

@MNHQ I don't wish to 'respect the pronouns' of this criminal.

I will ask for this post to be removed if asked if inappropriate for this thread but not because of misgendering.

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