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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

‘No Trans Olympian’ List of women and girls disadvantaged in sport - resource thread

162 replies

NotBadConsidering · 24/02/2021 10:08

I’m absolutely sick of the whole “no trans Olympian” argument, which completely fails to acknowledge the hundreds of women and girls already disadvantaged at non-Olympic levels. This post is a more detailed, more researched variation of a post I’ve made before and is not extensive.

Terri Miller and Andraya Yearwood


When these two athletes were allowed to compete in Connecticut state high school athletics, every girl who participated had their place lowered by one or two in every competition these in which athletes took part.

These are the results from 2018:

www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?event_id=458&do=news&news_id=534718

Note the names of all the girls whose places were lowered, not just those whose places were lowered from the winners’ podium. Note also the names Shanea Calhoun and Shayla Wallace, the record holders for the 100m and 200m respectively.

Here are the 2019 results:

www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?event_id=458&do=news&news_id=578633

A few things to note here. Note the new record holder who has erased those names from above...
Also note that by good fortune, Chelsea Mitchell won the final because Terri Miller false-started. Some justice there.

A special mention to Selina Soule whose name appears and has been brave enough to speak out against the injustice:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=3DsejTFZQ7k

This list of affected girls is not comprehensive. It doesn’t include qualifying meets, lower school events, indoor events etc.

CeCe Telfer

Telfer competed in the women’s 400m hurdles in the Division II (two) NCAA Championships in 2019.

Here are the results from 2018 where Telfer doesn’t appear:

fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/track_outdoor_champs_records/2018/D2Women.pdf

Note the name Minna Sveard who finished 8th with a time of 1.02.54. Now look at the results from 2019:

fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/track_outdoor_champs_records/2019/D2Women.pdf

All of these women had their places lowered by one. And look at Minna Sveard. Worked hard over the year to knock 3 seconds off her time to come 2nd...behind Telfer.

Hannah Mouncey AFL

Aussie rules has 18 players on each side. When Hannah Mouncey was allowed to play in the lower leagues, one of Mouncey’s teammates sat on the bench each game. Maybe another didn’t make the squad because their place on the bench was taken. All of Mouncey’s teammates were disadvantaged by having to share changing facilities. All of Mouncey’s opponents were disadvantaged by having to tackle Mouncey. Then multiply that by how many teams are in that league. Then add the umpires who were placed in a compromising legal position should any serious injury had happened to a woman. This is hundreds of women. There are too many to find to acknowledge individually.

Hannah Mouncey Handball

When Mouncey switched to handball, a woman didn’t get selected to represent Australia at the 2018 Asian championships because Mouncey was in the squad. A woman who made the squad didn’t get to start, because Mouncey started all 6 games. All of these women were disadvantaged by having to share changing facilities with Mouncey, something they complained about, according to Mouncey. Mouncey also played handball for a club in Melbourne.

I have found some of the names of the Australian women’s handball squad that played in the Asian Championships in 2018 but it isn’t comprehensive.

Rachel McKinnon/Veronica Ivy Track Cycling

When McKinnon (as was known then) won at the Masters cycling championships, every woman below had their place moved down by one.

www.cyclingmasters.com/site/results/450-f35-39-sprint-final-result-2019

Dawn Orwick missed out on gold. Kersten Herup Sovang missed out on silver.

www.cyclingmasters.com/site/results/385-f35-39-sprint-qualifying-round-result-2019

Amber Walsh didn’t get the chance to race for bronze.

Laurel Hubbard Weightlifting

When Laurel Hubbard, a middle aged transwoman whose wealthy family owns a cereal company in New Zealand, won weightlifting gold in Samoa, Feagaiga Stowers, an 18 year old indigenous Samoan woman, a survivor of abuse, was denied gold at her home games. Every other woman who finished below Hubbard had their place lowered by one.

www.oceaniaweightlifting.com/Portals/0/results/owf-results/2019PG.pdf?ver=2019-07-18-123626-010

The women affected were (page 41): Feagaiga Stowers, Iuniarra Sipaia, Charisma Amoe Tarrant, Mamuel Mwareow, Helen Anastasia Seipua.

The New Zealand team took 8 weightlifters to those games, 4 men and 4 women. Hubbard was counted as one of the latter. Which meant there was a woman left home back in NZ who didn’t get the chance to compete at the Pacific games. Weightlifters have to compete at a number of certain events to qualify for the Olympics.

Maxine Blythin Cricket

When Maxine Blythin won Kent Women’s cricketer of the year, someone else didn’t. When Blythin plays on the women’s team, either local or county, a woman is relegated to 12th woman. When Blythin smashes a smaller, lighter ball over a closer boundary rope, the women who are bowling to Blythin have their bowling averages increased. This is scores of women. It’s hard to find all of these women, but I found one match summary of a game when Blythin scored 152 not out. The bowlers all had very high runs scored against them.

www.play-cricket.com/website/results/3863705

These bowlers had their bowling averages and likely their confidence blown out by Blythin hitting 22 boundaries. So an acknowledgment of Ellen Burt, Megan Belt, Eleanor Monk, Naomi Woods, Bethan Harvey, Natasha Sole, and Hollie Young of St Lawrence and Highland Court first XI.

I can’t find who was runner up in Kent Women’s cricketer of the year.

Please feel free to add examples of ANY level of sport. This is hundreds of women and girls negatively affected by just a handful of non-Olympian trans athletes.

These women and girls matter.

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ahagwearsapointybonnet · 26/02/2021 09:07

That's a very important point TheInebriati - it's affecting girls'/women's life chances and careers well beyond sports in this way too.

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NotBadConsidering · 26/02/2021 22:44

@ahagwearsapointybonnet

That's a very important point TheInebriati - it's affecting girls'/women's life chances and careers well beyond sports in this way too.

Even just being able to describe themselves accurately is affected.

Feagaiga Stowers cannot say “I am the Pacific games weightlifting champion.”

Bridget Lalonde cannot say “I’m the Connecticut State High School 100m champion.”

Instead she has to say “I came 3rd in the Connecticut State High School championships....” then wait to gauge people’s reactions of explaining how she didn’t win, whether people will be sympathetic or call her an evil T*rf for qualifying how she lost to two males Hmm.

KC Grady and Nikki Xiarhos can’t describe themselves as state finalists, which is still a big deal and a great achievement, because they didn’t make the final because two biological males were ahead of them.

And so on, and so on. All of these women and girls matter. We should always point out who has been negatively affected and why, not just name the biological males.
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andyoldlabour · 27/02/2021 13:12

The following video demonstrates how ridiculous the situation is, the fact that a senior politician refuses to answer a very simple and direct question.

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AlfonsoTheTerrible · 27/02/2021 13:44

This is a great thread.

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NotBadConsidering · 20/05/2021 21:47
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Delphinium20 · 21/05/2021 04:27

Thank you!!! I sent an email to savewomenssports.com/ suggesting they add a list like this on their site.

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OhHolyJesus · 21/05/2021 09:48

Good idea Delphinium that would be a good resource to share along with images - one we could link to in emails to sporting bodies.

I'm taking text and links from this thread to share in emails I'll be sending...

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Zeugma · 21/05/2021 10:35

I'm very late to this but my God, the clip of June Eastwood winning a track race that was posted upthread......absolutely gobsmacking. It's blatantly obvious that Eastwood could have come off the starting blocks and blasted past the much-more petite young women right from the off, then probably stayed whole laps in front to win the race.

Instead Eastwood trots along for a while, obviously pretending to keep up with the pace which the women are setting, and even letting them get ahead, then BLAM! They don't know what's hit them. And Eastwood just zooms into the distance. Doesn't even break a sweat while the women athletes are giving it everything they've got.

If that happened in the Olympics I hope it would finally open some eyes. But how must those women have felt? It's just enraging and heartbreaking.

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Blibbyblobby · 21/05/2021 10:50

Lowered testosterone that is still much higher than the female average. They are permitted 10nmol/L where women on average have between 0.3 and 2.4 nmol/L.

Reposting this from @Truthlikeness. It needs to be shouted clearly every time the lowered testosterone is given as an equaliser.

A female woman with testosterone >3 nmol/l would be referred for medical investigation because it's too high for a woman, yet the trans women's limit is 3 times that.

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MedusasBrandyButter · 21/05/2021 13:02

The splendid Dr Emma Hilton @FondOfBeetles posted this graph of an "outlier" in women's heavyweight lifting. Who could it be, whose lifts were so extraordinarily out of line with the others? Hmm

twitter.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1395103093444993024

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ChateauMargaux · 21/05/2021 13:41

It is also the hundreds of thousands of women and girls who drop out of sport because they do not feel they fit in ... with fewer people like them at the top.. things will not get better.

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334bu · 21/05/2021 13:56

There is also the financial side as women's sport becomes more lucrative. In Argentina a transwoman is playing in a top ranked professional football team . There is also the thread about the US transwoman golfer who has just won a women's tournament. Now this person is going to target the more prestigious events where the monetary prizes are greater.

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vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 21/05/2021 13:57

Plus, the impact it has on us who are NOT athletes but need to move our fat asses a bit more

Aspiration is a powerful thing when it comes to physical activity. Williams sisters doing well at Wimbledon = little girls taking up tennis. USA football team wins = little girls taking up football.

The biggest killer of women in industrialised countries is coronary heart disease. I wonder if anyone is looking at the loss of role models as a factor in inactivity?

We already don't get the media coverage or sponsorship of men's sports, so to take away our sheroes is just, to my mind, misogyny.

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Delphinium20 · 21/05/2021 17:57

Instead Eastwood trots along for a while, obviously pretending to keep up with the pace which the women are setting, and even letting them get ahead, then BLAM

The deceit is out in the open. I do think many TW have dysphoria which impacts their own self-delusion, but this behavior seems deliberate, which would suggest knowledge of advantages.

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NotBadConsidering · 21/06/2021 07:18

Now that it’s confirmed that Hubbard will definitely be going to Tokyo, it seems the woman to miss out is a Tongan woman called Kuinini Manumua. I’ve looked, there have only been 43 Olympians from Tonga EVER. Kuinini Manumua cannot add herself to that list because a rich white privileged male has been enabled by the IOC and the NZOC to take her place Angry:

mobile.twitter.com/mar_vickers/status/1406769907258335234

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YellowFish12 · 21/06/2021 10:26

Great threw of resources / highly depressing thread there are so many in number

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Helleofabore · 21/06/2021 15:22

Adding Chelsea Wolfe. While still an ‘alternate’ for the US BMX team they have taken the place of another young and up and coming female bmx rider who could have had a chance at competing and would have at very minimum had the experience of attending an Olympics to inspire or help them to adjust if they did get on the team next Olympics.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9701947/BMX-rider-Chelsea-Wolfe-Team-USAs-transgender-Olympian.html

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Helleofabore · 21/05/2022 11:10

Not a zombie resurrection but a timely resurrection with notbad’s permission.

Let’s keep this updated now the examples are coming frequently.

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Helleofabore · 21/05/2022 11:11

Here is an Australian surfer taking positions from females at at least state level.

Sasha Jane Lowerson 43 year old male West Australian surfer.


www.mandurahmail.com.au/story/7742190/this-means-so-much-sasha-jane-lowerson-on-paving-the-way-for-trans-women-in-surfing/?cs=9402

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Helleofabore · 21/05/2022 11:12

Ahria Everett came first in the Women’s Skate at the Yarra Ranges Downhill Festival in March. Ahria Everett

Race results will have great influence on who is chosen to represent Australia in the World Roller Games in Argentina in November. Stay tuned for more info on that.

www.basementskate.com.au/blog/2022/03/31/donna-buang-downhill-festival-march-18-20-2022/

Also noteworthy that Australian skateboard racing association has removed the female event results from Facebook.
I guess they got complaints and went into avoidance mode.

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Helleofabore · 21/05/2022 11:16

Lia Thomas

Male swimmer

This thread follows their times and other media. Thomas’s inclusion did force changes to some rules.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4414643-Penn-s-Lia-Thomas-breaks-200-500-Free-records-in-meet-with-Princeton-Cornell?

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Helleofabore · 21/05/2022 11:19

Emily Bridges

British Cycling champion male still holds a male record but now wishes to race as female.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4520269-Times-article-Emily-Bridges-not-a-threat-to-womens-sport

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Helleofabore · 21/05/2022 11:41

Lilian Gallagher - US Skateboarder

Redbull Minneapolis Cornerstone female winner.

Taylor Silverman placed second and has complained to Red Bull about the lack of fair competition.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552056-female-skateboarder-taylor-silverman-speaks-out-about-transwoman-winning-womans-competitions

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Helleofabore · 21/05/2022 11:45

Blair Hamilton - UK football

The player, who was born male but identifies as female, was selected after impressive displays for Hastings United Football Club women's team in East Sussex, known as the 'Us'.

Last Wednesday, the team tweeted: 'The 'Us' are delighted to announced that [Blair Hamilton] has been selected for the England Universities Sport Women's Squad!'

Blair Hamilton, 32 - who is also lead investigator of Tavistock Transgender Athlete Study - will take one of coveted spots in national squad within weeks
•The player - a PhD student at Brighton University - was born male but identifies as female

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10679981/Trans-goalkeeper-used-play-mens-football-selected-England-Universities-womens-side.html

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334bu · 21/05/2022 11:47

Natalie Van Gogh takes up cycling to lose weight after transitioning from being a male and not long after ,aged 31, is given professional contract on a female cycling team. This professional career continues until October last year when Van Gogh retired at the age of 47 because no professional team would give her a place because of her age. Quite the " traditional "career path for a professional woman cyclist. Wonder which woman lost the chance to make a living from the sport she loves because of Nathalie? We will of course never know

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