Single man looking for a surrogate - BBC

[OhHolyJesus]

At 34 he really doesn't need to rush to have a biological child to meet his "burning desire" but he has two embryos on ice with an attractive-sounding egg donor, rather than a partner and I'm sure he hopes the BBC article will mean someone 'comes forward' (don't all rush at once ladies) to grow a "little person" for him.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56162721

So women need to grow and deliver babies, and possibly risk their lives for:

Infertile heterosexual couples
Gay men
Single men

...and someone will be along to say this is discriminatory against single women with careers soon, thus the new age of social surrogacy is born.

I've had miscarriages, doesn't mean I would ever imagine using another woman's body to create a child to give to me.

Oh and I'm a dancer and the idea that dancing is like growing a human life in you is absolutely laughable. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so terrifying that people actually think like that.

At what age is a surrogate baby taken away from its mother?

David Watkins was at the home birth of his son Miles, he wrote about he was born into his arms in the birthing pool in the Times

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/david-watkins-why-i-chose-to-become-a-single-dad-by-surrogacy-q72369593

And today he told the story woth the surrogate mother, Faye Spreadbury who confirmed on Woman's Hour that David left with Miles 6 hours later which is the minimum I understand for a surrogacy home birth.

Home births are preferred by mothers for many reasons but for surrogate mothers it means there is no car park 'transfer' which I can understand feels like a business transaction, leaving together but handing the baby over in the car park does seem callous but hospital staff usually insist upon the transfer taking place off their premises for legal reasons, so to not be having responsibility for it really.

For a hospital birth the time before you could leave with the bay would depend on the health and welfare of the baby who is a patient essentially and for all the paperwork to be done. I think it's quite different with a a surrogacy home birth. For example I'm not sure if the midwife or doula needs to be present for that 6 hours, or if it's a legal requirement or simply a guideline set by the agency.

If I've understood that article correctly, in the very same month that he split from his long term partner, during a national lockdown, he started his 'surrogacy journey' and within 7 months he's got two embryos.

He needs counselling, not a lockdown 'mini me'.

That’s heartbreaking. Although to be honest I don’t think there is a difference between 6 hours, 6 days or 6 weeks. Who is advocating for the babies here?
When my screaming baby was born after a long traumatic labour it was amazing how completely silent and calm she became when she heard my voice. To deny and deliberately break that bond for an hours old infant is cruel beyond measure. It’s completely different to adoption, where in most circumstances the baby has been removed from its mother for its own well being. To breed a baby with the intention of removing it from its mother is cruel.

Also the irony of his statement,

'But you can do it on your own, it is possible'

No he quite clearly can't, otherwise he wouldn't be looking for a surrogate.

@OhHolyJesus - I don't understand why you've linked to a video from donor conceived people.

Donor conception and surrogacy aren't the same thing.

To deny and deliberately break that bond for an hours old infant is cruel beyond measure. It’s completely different to adoption, where in most circumstances the baby has been removed from its mother for its own well being.

This is emotional woo. What bond? If you say there is a bond between mother and fetus that develops before birth then surely the most cruel thing is late term abortion, not birthing the baby and hours later giving the baby up for a pre-arranged adoption, which is all that surrogacy is really. You have adoptive parent(s) on hand prior to getting pregnant instead of them being found after getting pregnant.

Secondly, it’s not correct that most babies given up for adoption are taken away from unfit mothers by social services. The vast majority of babies going into the adoption system are from women who do not have the economic means to raise another child. They’re not drug addicts. They’re not mentally unhinged or abusive. They are most often in young and poverty. This kind of generalisation about the mothers who put babies up for adoption is just othering and demonising poor women.

The numbers of babies given up for adoption (referred to as being relinquished) in the UK is very small indeed.
They are not given up by mothers who do not have the financial means to raise them. Social services are involved because mothers and fathers are often not able to care for the children and children have to be taken into care for their own welfare needs. It's demonising to call them 'unfit mothers', they are mothers who are struggling with a rotten set of life circumstances. In the past they could access services for addiction, proper mental health support. They could also access more refuges to accomodate them and their children if fleeing an abusive partner.
Now, leaving an abusive partner often results in children entering care.

I'm digressing from the main theme of this thread now. But adoption is about helping children secure parents for the rest of their childhood.
Surrogacy is a very different matter. But both involve babies experiencing loss and separation from birth parents, especially mothers. We can't pretend it doesn't happen.

PlanDeRaccordement
“Secondly, it’s not correct that most babies given up for adoption are taken away from unfit mothers by social services. The vast majority of babies going into the adoption system are from women who do not have the economic means to raise another child. They’re not drug addicts. They’re not mentally unhinged or abusive. They are most often in young and poverty. This kind of generalisation about the mothers who put babies up for adoption is just othering and demonising poor women.”

I didn’t say anything like this. I said “ in most [adoptive] circumstances the baby has been removed from its mother for its own well being.”

The baby is not ‘conceived’ by the surrogate mother. The baby is conceived by the mother and father who provide their sperm and eggs which are cultivated into a 5 day blastocyst containing its full genetic code from the parents which is then carried by a surrogate mother to term.

Also my SIL and DSIS both had premature babies during lockdown. The babies were in NICU for 2-4 weeks and during this time the mothers were only allowed to drop milk up and see them for 15 minutes. Both are happy well adjusted babies. They also had cameras on them and no evidence they were upset or distressed at being away from their mothers. Surely if this had as massive an impact as you are saying that the maternity hospital would be all over the news for damaging countless premature babies lives???

@Sammiesnake these newborns babies are going straight into loving homes with two parents. I’d be more worried about the rights of countless newborns born into violence and poverty personally.

Yes. You are quite right. Prematurity and extensive hospital stays due to prematurity are risk factors for attachment disorder. If you google, you'll find lots about it.

Lockdown has thrown all the usual procedures out of the window, but nursing staff in SCBU and NICU used to work very hard with parents to foster attachment between the baby and parents.

Since you bring up lockdown, did you know that loads of babies didn't go straight to the commissioning parents? And why are you assuming they would all be going to a two parwnt household?

metro.co.uk/2020/05/16/100-surrogate-babies-stranded-ukraine-lockdown-12713670/

@PotholeParadies

Yes. You are quite right. Prematurity and extensive hospital stays due to prematurity are risk factors for attachment disorder. If you google, you'll find lots about it.

Lockdown has thrown all the usual procedures out of the window, but nursing staff in SCBU and NICU used to work very hard with parents to foster attachment between the baby and parents.

What does this have to do with the ethics of surrogacy and potential exploitation of women.

Many of the comments on this thread are actually about endorsing the 'natural' nuclear family as the only model that doesn't, apparently, traumatise a child. This isn't feminism, it's reactionary politics.

Forever was informing me that SCBU stays had no effect on infants, psychologically. I was replying. Politely.

I'm fairly proud of myself, too. You can donate to my patreon to support my work here. [email protected]

Many of the comments on this thread are actually about endorsing the 'natural' nuclear family as the only model that doesn't, apparently, traumatise a child. This isn't feminism, it's reactionary politics.

Not at all. Removing an infant from its mother causes trauma to the infant. We know this. I don't give two hoots if that mother is a single mother who used a sperm donor, one of two mothers in a lesbian relationship or a mother who prefers to call themselves a father, the baby should not have to suffer the trauma of being parted from them purely in order to alleviate an adult's need to have a baby to call their own.

@WineInTheWillows

Many of the comments on this thread are actually about endorsing the 'natural' nuclear family as the only model that doesn't, apparently, traumatise a child. This isn't feminism, it's reactionary politics.

Not at all. Removing an infant from its mother causes trauma to the infant. We know this. I don't give two hoots if that mother is a single mother who used a sperm donor, one of two mothers in a lesbian relationship or a mother who prefers to call themselves a father, the baby should not have to suffer the trauma of being parted from them purely in order to alleviate an adult's need to have a baby to call their own.

Quite

@WineInTheWillows I am interested to learn more about this area - can you link me some research on using a surrogate causing trauma to children? As I would feel personally that going to a loving family would be positive for these babies.

@PotholeParadies you will note I was talking specifically about my experience of two family members whose babies were in NICU where no impacts were found whereas one poster seemed to think a 6 hour separation was causing trauma. Like I said the two babies were on camera and absolutely no indication of stressors. And yes I saw that about the poor babies being separated from their families during the lockdown. I hope it all got resolved quickly and they are now home with their families. Definitely a case for a special dispensation to travel.

I have to say I just came across this post today. I don’t usually post on feminism chat and I can’t say I would be encouraged to in the future. Very uncomfortable atmosphere with clear that dissenting voices are not allowed.

Good luck to you all. I will try forget I found this ugly part of the site.

Forever, may I be blunt?

This is a parenting site. You are an aunt to two preemies, and may I say that I wish them well.

But did you consider that maybe you might be talking to people who had been inside a SCBU, worried about not doing the skin contact because the baby was rushed away within minutes of birth by a paediatrician, and all that?

Try and read your post back, while imagining you're lecturing someone who had a premature baby.

Oh. No need to imagine. You just actually did! Do you really think I was that nasty?

Cool story, bro.

Potholes my apologies because my above comment wasn’t to you !

Poor Trifle. That was a very unfortunate cross-post.

@Whatwouldscullydo

So much entitlement.

There must be plenty of children who need a loving home. Why not adopt?

I cant imagine that surrogacy is free of the trauma and attachment issues etc that they perhaps worry adoption is going to result in.

Surrogacy is exploitive and risky akd I don't believe anyone should have the right to dictate someone's life for 9 months and maintain the option to back out any time you want leaving a struggling woman to either give the baby up, or raise it herself. One would assume if she is being a surrogate money is probably a huge issue in her life.

Funny how the BBC know what sex is when it comes to men trying to have a baby

This

@NoSuchThingAsTooMuch

my body, my choice

The absolute worst of liberal feminism distilled right there.

I care about the bodies of women who are being trafficked, exploited, cut and discarded. My body is not being treated this way, but under current legislation and social norms, other women's are. I care about them. What about them?

And yes, as pp said, what about the child's rights? The trauma of being taken from their birth mother seems only applicable in discussions around adoption but suddenly it's ok when it is surrogacy?

There's a line that needs to be drawn. Having a biological child is not a right. And using the bodies of other women in order to gratify your urges is despicable.

Well said, I agree.