Keir Starmer on Sophy Ridge

[EdgeOfACoin]

On just now.

Asked about trans rights. Said that they didn't go far enough and the current process to transition is demeaning.

Criticised both sides (ie TRAs and feminists) for 'tearing lumps' out of each other.

Expressed sympathy for women who were victims of domestic violence but refused to say whether refuges should be single-sex or not (fence-sitting).

Why should I vote for concessions or scraps from Labour if Liz Truss is in the other corner, holding the line on this?

And able to talk about the issue with the support of her party. I’m not just looking at what he says, but how he treats MPs who try to address the issue.

Yy merrymouse. The treatment of Rosie Duffield is shocking and when I sent a complaint to Labour I got a response within hours saying there was no problem. And then I think about the abuse Luciana Berger suffered before her and I start to see a pattern.

If you read Left Out: The Inside Story of Labour Under Corbyn you'll get a better picture of Starmer. He's the eminence grise who runs around busily in the background getting things done but he's not a leader and he's beyond cautious when it comes to doing and saying anything that will alienate anyone. Like others, I thought he was the obvious choice for the leadership and wondered why the one Labour MP I know personally didn't vote for him. That MP was behind Emily Thornberry, who he thought was the only one with the guts and vision required to do what was necessary.

I used to think Starmer was going to be the new Neil Kinnock — the leader who did a lot of sorting out and clearing decks so that when Blair and Brown took over they had a better chance. Now I think Starmer's just a waste of space —probably wringing his hands and holding placatory meetings while the party burns. Alan Johnson's 70 and three or four years ago when he was interviewed at the Hay Festival he was clear he wasn't going to stand for leadership. Whenever I've heard him speak I've thought that if they'd had him as leader instead of Milliband then Labour wouldn't be in the state it's in now.

I saw George Monbiot's appeal to Starmer and he reflects my views on this. Labour needs gutsy leadership.

twitter.com/doubledownnews/status/1360180701316997122

I can't foresee Labour getting back into power in my lifetime. I can't believe I'm saying this, but they need a strong, pragmatic, charismatic leader with his own plan for the party. A woman is going to find it very difficult in the current climate. It's got to be a man who tells the trans lobby to back down and who builds strong protections for women and girls.

The only other option is a new, centrist party that has feminism and women at its core. The Tories know how important the female vote is.

And please stop saying that spoiling your ballot will be noticed by the political parties and is an effective form of protest. It really isn’t. If you’re not voting for a candidate because of their stance on this issue you have to write to them and tell them so

It is possible to both spoil your ballot and to write to your candidates telling them why. That is what many of us were forced to do last time around, and continue to do.

Nobody should feel compelled to vote positively for a party or a candidate who actively rejects their interests and concerns.

Most trans women aren’t a threat in a women’s toilet and it IS exclusionary to ask them to use the men’s

It is not so much about threat, as about privacy, comfort and dignity of one's sex. The trans umbrella now includes many diverse groups, it is not like the days in which a few fully transitioned transexuals inconspicuously used the women's facilities.

Trans rights has become a defining issue for the younger generation - it’s incredibly important to them. It’s the equivalent of banning nuclear weapons or protesting against the Iraq War for earlier generations

Yes, and climate change. However young people grow up, and their life experiences teach them that life is not quite so simple or as black and white as they would like to believe. I speak as someone who actually used to live on a peace camp in the 1980's, and spent years around idealistic left type struggles.

*For her, feminism is about being mean to transwomen and she hasn’t grasped the bigger issue. This is why I’m saying that the bigger issue is better illustrated by women’s sports than toilets8

but it isn't just about the 'bigger picture' - even though that is crucial....It is also about the very small and intimate issue....and it is women who understand this best.....even those who have yet to be confronted with the implications of that.

For her, feminism is about being mean to transwomen and she hasn’t grasped the bigger issue. This is why I’m saying that the bigger issue is better illustrated by women’s sports than toilets

But it isn't just about the 'bigger picture' - even though that is crucial....It is also about the very small and intimate issue....and it is women who understand this best.....even those who have yet to be confronted with the implications of that.

As a feminist and a woman I have no political home anymore. I will never vote Tory, my LibDem loyalty has obviously ended and now I can’t even vote Labour. It is shameful.

The other weird thing is that AR is a respected journalist. If she wants to understand a different point of view, why is she just reading articles and twitter? Why doesn’t she pick up the phone and talk to some of the left wing female journalists who have written on this issue?

Starmer's spinelessness is that he continues to hold just the tiniest fragment of carrot over women's heads that he may show some crumbs of care for women's rights.

He won't. The man is as flat out gynephobic as the women who stood for Labour leadership but had the balls to be honest about it.

Most trans women aren’t a threat in a women’s toilet and it IS exclusionary to ask them to use the men’s

Most men aren't a threat in a women's toilet. However, we still exclude them for reasons of safety and privacy.

He didn't say TWAW which was quite significant

But he might think it. Do you really think one should base one's voting preferences on the things politicians don't say? Seriously?

The other weird thing is that AR is a respected journalist. If she wants to understand a different point of view, why is she just reading articles and twitter? Why doesn’t she pick up the phone and talk to some of the left wing female journalists who have written on this issue

"Journalism' these days, certainly for a younger generation seems to consist of hosting a blog and/or writing opinion pieces. And many young people do not even look at, or read, any mainstream media at all; they are instantly distrustful of it.

Journalism should involve getting out there and speaking to a wide variety of people, and different communities; not just choosing a tribe and being a mouthpiece for it.

And please stop saying that spoiling your ballot will be noticed by the political parties and is an effective form of protest. It really isn’t. If you’re not voting for a candidate because of their stance on this issue you have to write to them and tell them so.

I have been doing that. So have others. And it is suspected that our letters and emails are being intercepted by woke staffers.

"Journalism' these days, certainly for a younger generation seems to consist of hosting a blog and/or writing opinion piece

She honestly is a respected political correspondent at the New Statesman. I know the New Statesman has a particular political angle, but plenty of people who share those views are gender critical and some of them even write for the NS. It’s unclear why she can’t talk to them directly.

I'm all over the place regarding Starmer. 'He's a prosecutor,' I tell myself. 'He picks a fight when he's sure he can win'. Or I argue that at least he reads pledges before he signs them. But mostly I feel depressed at how little I'm asking for and at how little it takes to keep me onside.

Lately I've taken to watching the SDP. I hope they're watching this shitshow too.

@Tistheseason17

How do you define genuine Transwoman

Honestly, having read comments it is a pretty grey area.

I have met trans women who are women. Not trying to fit in,not going through a phase - women whose body does not match them and everything they think/feel.

But, it's clear there is a spectrum of people outside of this and I would not be happy for my DDs to share a changing room with someone who simply SIs as a woman but is not actually living as/transitioning- just using a law for their own gratification.

Would you be happy for your DDs to share a changing room with someone who says their body doesn’t match them? I assume from what you said about them being women you would

Would you give your DDs a choice about sharing a changing room with someone who says they feel like their body doesnt match how they feel which means they look exactly like a man including penis?

How would you treat your DDs if they objected? Would you explain how they had to be kind to the person that looked like a man that they didnt feel comfortable about them seeing them get undressed?

Genuine questions, I’m just curious how far you would go

I think some people are actually scared to talk with or interview articulate, reasonable and left-leaning GC people. They are scared that they might find agreement or sympathy.

I wrote to my newly elected MP ( who replaced Louise Ellman in Liverpool - Riverside) to discuss these issues, and to sound her out. Louise Ellman had been very open, and I had a two hour meeting with her in her constituency office.

However, the new MP ( Kim Johnson) simply sent me a standard reply pretty much stating the party line that TWAW and that trans people are the most marginalised. I suggested to her that i could arrange for a group of her constituents to meet with her, so she could listen to their concerns. I would do all of the arranging. she completely blanked that suggestion/request. She can't afford to alienate her target audience - which is a Momentum type crowd.

No politician is entitled to my vote.

I am.perfectly entitled to decide that I cannot and will not endorse any of them. If I am in that position (I am!), I am certainly not going to stay at home and let them assume I was an apathetic voter who couldn't be arsed to leave the sofa.

I have voted at every single election I was eligible for, since I turned 18. Sometimes I have spoilt because I couldn't endorse any candidate, but I always go.

If it still the case that I can't pick a candidate at the next election, I will spoil my vote, but I will write why.

#LabourLosingWomen is a good tag for it.

@Floisme

I'm all over the place regarding Starmer. 'He's a prosecutor,' I tell myself. 'He picks a fight when he's sure he can win'. Or I argue that at least he reads pledges before he signs them. But mostly I feel depressed at how little I'm asking for and at how little it takes to keep me onside.

Lately I've taken to watching the SDP. I hope they're watching this shitshow too.

They've nailed their colours to the mast for women's rights, haven't they?

Would you be happy for your DDs to share a changing room with someone who says their body doesn’t match them? I assume from what you said about them being women you would

Would you give your DDs a choice about sharing a changing room with someone who says they feel like their body doesnt match how they feel which means they look exactly like a man including penis?

How would you treat your DDs if they objected? Would you explain how they had to be kind to the person that looked like a man that they didnt feel comfortable about them seeing them get undressed?

Genuine questions, I’m just curious how far you would go

I think this is the kind of approach that doesn't work for two reasons

2). Many people genuinely prefer a cubicle in a mixed sex area to communal changing rooms.

3). Intentionally or not it sets up the other person as being a less caring parent.

It's more honest and effective to just say "I don't want to get undressed near men (explain why if you think necessary), I have that right in law, I will defend that right".

Apologies for point numbering fail!

She can't afford to alienate her target audience - which is a Momentum type crowd.

But how the hell have we got to the point where the extreme left is considered is considered target audience?

I posted the Alan Johnson video upthread. I can totally understand that he doesn't want to step up for leader (more's the pity) but I find myself increasingly wondering if someone like him would even join the Labour Party now, never mind rise to some seniority.

Labour's political purity tests means its no longer acceptable to admit there might be two sides to a position, actually taking a centrist line is verboten. Who are we left with if Starmer was removed? The deselections over the last few years have decimated the talent pool of anyone with middle ground appeal and basic common sense.

I’ve also been perusing the SDP offering. This is what they have to say on the gender issue:
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POLICY PLEDGES:

Transgender individuals wishing to change their legal sex should be allowed to do so. However, we support the continued necessity for medical gatekeeping in any legal change of sex marker. We oppose proposals that would allow someone to change their legal sex by self-identification only.

We support segregation by biological sex in sport. Fair competition is not secured if male-bodied transgender athletes are permitted to compete in women’s sport and, in the case of contact sports, the risk of injury can increase significantly.

We support segregation by biological sex in prisons and women’s refuges in order to safeguard the safety and privacy of natal females. Separate prisons or prison accommodation should be provided for transgender citizens to ensure their safety and privacy.

Healthcare spending and resources for gender dysphoric individuals, including long-term psychological intervention, should be provided at sufficient levels. Physical or drug-based medical treatments for gender dysphoria should be prohibited for anyone under 18 years of age.
We support the retention of biological sex and gender identity as distinct categories in public sector data gathering such as crime statistics, poverty metrics or public health research.

We support the use of plain English for discussions of biological sex in health and reproductive care

———————————————-
The sticking point for for me is that they’re anti EU I’m broadly in agreement with most of the rest of their platform though, so I honestly think I might end up joining. I’ll then be a thorn in their side over the EU, and continue to stay in the Libdems to harangue them about sex based rights. Fence sitting is the new black.