Transmen taking spaces away from males?

[SorryPleaseTryAgain]

I have been wondering whether there are any instances where transmen are taking spaces/awards/representation away from biological males? I don't think I've ever seen any examples of this, does it ever happen?

Wouldn't it be so useful if someone could list all the transwomen who are known to be playing on female sports teams, who have won medals, accolades, women of the year, are representing women as women's officer, on advisory boards etc

And then do the same for transmen. All the known transmen that play on male sports teams (0?) have won medals in men's sports competitions (0?) are on the boards of male specific charities or organisations. Any transmen have been named man of the year, businessman of the year etc. And I don't mean LGBTQ accolades, but those that biological men would otherwise have won.
Also how many transmen are in other, general political positions (as these would most likely otherwise have been held my men).

It would be really great if someone clever (Maybe Fairplay for Women wink ) could contrast this against statistics for men and women, similar to what they did with prison statistics. That way we could see if the same patterns of males being overrepresented in positions of power, recognition for achievements etc continue regardless of how the person identifies.

Even within the LGBTQ community itself we see lots of transwomen in leading positions.

If anyone has any examples, feel free to list them on this thread!

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Men wouldn't stand for it and are allowed to say no to females being included in their groups and spaces and keep their language.

Tbf you don't really get things like man of the year business awards and male only shortlists because there is no disparity to be addressed.

And why not address that disparity by allowing someone who only identifies as a woman, access to a women's shortlist. Sounds like that'll sort the problem right out.

That way we could see if the same patterns of males being overrepresented in positions of power, recognition for achievements etc continue regardless of how the person identifies.

I think i can help with this. There are no transgender MPs, and no transgender people sit in the House of Lords. If the trans representation in politics wiki page is correct (and I think it is) there is currently just one trans woman (and no trans men) serving as one of the UK's 20,000 councillors. In the UK at least there are no trans columnists on national newspapers, no trans newsreaders or television presenters, no trans people heading FT100 companies, no prominent trans people in sport, no well known trans actors, or comedians. There are no trans heads of police, just one trans judge I believe (out of 1800), no trans people running the UK's largest charities, no trans Bishops or senior religious officials, and I think there has only ever been one transgender headteacher. There are an awful lot of trans sex workers, homeless trans people and unemployed trans people.

This suggests that being trans, and even being a trans women, does not come bestowed with great privilege.

I don't post half as much on here as many people do.

But the difference is that those others are women eagerly discussing news and ideas and information about women’s rights. Engaged in issues that concern them. Lots of different issues and interests.

You, on the other hand, are here to keep telling us we’re wrong and we should give up our single-sex rights. Always banging the same tuneless drum. That must be mind-numbingly dull. And have you ever convinced anyone?

jj1968

India Willoughby - Broadcaster, journalist, newsreader etc.
Paris Lees - journalist, presenter, author etc.
Maxine Blythin - Kent Women's Cricket team cricketer of the year 2019

www.thecricketblog.com/maxine-blythin-and-the-curious-case-of-womens-cricket/

Lauren Jeska - UK champion fell runner and violent criminal.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Jeska

Here is a list of notable transgender people.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transgender_people

[quote andyoldlabour]jj1968

India Willoughby - Broadcaster, journalist, newsreader etc.
Paris Lees - journalist, presenter, author etc.
Maxine Blythin - Kent Women's Cricket team cricketer of the year 2019

www.thecricketblog.com/maxine-blythin-and-the-curious-case-of-womens-cricket/

Lauren Jeska - UK champion fell runner and violent criminal.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Jeska

Here is a list of notable transgender people.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transgender_people[/quote]
Noteable people in women's positions of influence (several people holding up to three positions each afaik):

• Heather Peto, place on All Women’s Shortlist, place on Jo Cox’s Women in Leadership Programme
• Suzannah Hopwood, place on Royal College of Obs/Gyn Women’s Network (Mission statement. 'Improving women's health and experience of obstetrics and gynaecology services.') Suzannah also featured in a Prostatecanceruk article re their experience with prostate cancer.
• Lily Madigan Constituency Labour Party Woman’s Officer and National Women’s Officer of Labour Students
• Mridhul Wadwha manager of Forth Valley Rape Crisis Centre, place on All Women Shortlist for SNP in Stirling
• Kathryn Bristow co chair of Green Party Women
• Sue Pascoe Chair of Conservatives Women North Yorkshire, 50:50 Parliament Panellist - Sue Pascoe
• Robin Moira White 50:50 Parliament Panellist
• Dr Victoria McCloud - ‘Youngest Female Master in the High Court of England’ an accolade that gives a platform and visibility
• Pips Bunce winner of ‘Top 100 Women in Business’ award giving a platform and visibility.

There was another Green Party group (?) that was supposed to be 50:50 representation but ended up being 80:20 male as I remember.

Then we've got:
Rosalind Mitchell - first UK trans councillor
Jenny Bailey - first trans mayor
Gregor Murray - trans official in Scotland
Sarah Brown - trans LibDem politician, CIty councillor in Cambridge
Emily Brothers - trans Labour candidate Sutton and Cheam.

I'd say in managing to get Baroness Nicholson sacked from the Booker Prize board, Munroe Bergdorf is pretty influential. MB was also invited to open International Women's Day at the MAC Theatre in Belfast.

JJ, as you're here, I'd like to ask you about hate speech and perception.

Until recently, the status quo would have been that there are two sexes, and some people transition to a gender expression that suits them better. For the majority of history, certainly in the west, these people were seen as oddities and would have expected at best tolerance. Cross dressing was mainly done in private, or in clubs. There was a more open, flamboyant scene in Germany in the thirties, I believe, but it was considered pretty outré

I'd like to think acceptance of people transitioning to the other gender is more wide spread, though recent upsets have set that back I am sure.

At some point a shift has occurred such that now, to recognise the sex of someone else is a hate crime and terrible bigotry, to the extent that women who do so are targeted with death threats, hate mail, no platforming, job loss etc.

When and how did that shift happen? When did we move from working for tolerance and acceptance of people who want to transition, to a position where acknowledging the reality of the sex of another person is a hate crime?

We've gone from:
Jenny is trans, but she's ok, don't worry about her, she won't bother you.
To:
Jenny is a woman, she's on a women in industry panel to encourage women into male dominated fields and uses the women's changing rooms at the gym. If you don't like it, shut the fuck up and stay away from the gym you bigot, and don't think of joining the panel for women in industry, and if you try we'll get you sacked, you transphobe.

I'm really interested to see when and how observing and behaving in accordance with material reality became so offensive.

When did we move from working for tolerance and acceptance of people who want to transition, to a position where acknowledging the reality of the sex of another person is a hate crime?

I'll answer this briefly because I don't want to get accused of derailing. Simply put, we didn't, it is not a hate crime to acknowledge the reality of the sex of another person. If you went on and on about it to an individual to the point it met the criminal threshold for harassment then it would be a crime, and could be aggravated as a hate crime, as it would be if you went on and on about someone's religion or sexuality.

I think JKRowling, Baroness Emma Nicholson etc would be surprised to hear you say that, JJ.

[quote andyoldlabour]jj1968

India Willoughby - Broadcaster, journalist, newsreader etc.
Paris Lees - journalist, presenter, author etc.
Maxine Blythin - Kent Women's Cricket team cricketer of the year 2019

www.thecricketblog.com/maxine-blythin-and-the-curious-case-of-womens-cricket/

Lauren Jeska - UK champion fell runner and violent criminal.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Jeska

Here is a list of notable transgender people.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transgender_people[/quote]
Somewhat revealing of the four most prominent trans people you can think of in the UK one of them is a famous criminal who is serving an 18 year prison sentence. Sort of proves my point.

I'm really interested to see when and how observing and behaving in accordance with material reality became so offensive.

if you went on and on about someone's religion or sexuality.

Well, we now have to as the response to statements like "no, this is a women-only shortlist" or "no, this is a female sport" or "no, I don't want a male examining me" is nowadays often "I don't care, let me in".

The change is not in the people saying no. They often wouldn't have even had to say "no" because the issue wouldn't have come up.

The change is in the people actually attempting the boundary violation, and then refusing to take no for an answer so we have to repeat ourselves.

gardenbird48

Thanks for adding to the list. There seem to be a lot in politics.

@picklemewalnuts

I think JKRowling, Baroness Emma Nicholson etc would be surprised to hear you say that, JJ.

Have either of them been prosecuted for a hate crime?

Not really the same but a gay sauna was told off for expelling a transman so I assumed this means other establishments may be forced to include females - IIRC data lounge was NOT impressed nor did they mince their words!
www.attitude.co.uk/article/london-gay-sauna-kicks-out-trans-man-for-not-having-a-penis-1/19517/

jj168
"In the UK at least there are no trans columnists on national newspapers"

Diana Thomas is trans woman columnist in the Telegraph.

[quote andyoldlabour]Transman Chris Mosier, represented the USA at Duathlon.
Transboy Mack Beggs won two girls championships at wrestling despite being on Testosterone.

Schuyler Bailar - swimmer
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuyler_Bailar[/quote]
I'm in two minds about Mack. On the one hand, yes, Mack was on testosterone while in a girls' competition and yes that's doping in regard to female athletes. However, Mack wanted to compete in the boys' competition but wasn't allowed (I'm sure that US state had some strict females in female competition and vice versa rule). So, Mack didn't want to have an unfair advantage.

On the other hand, Mack didn't stop competing despite that unfair advantage. While that was not (or mostly not) self-serving, because the idea was that sports administrators would see that this was blatantly unfair to the other girls and so let Mack compete with the boys, in the meantime girls were denied a fair chance to win, with all of the subsequent chances for scholarships and winnings lost, too.

I cannot help but feel those girls' right to a fair competition were sacrificed in aid of a campaign aimed at allowing participation based on identity not sex, which will see them lose out if it succeeds and lose out if it doesn't.

jj168
"In the UK at least there are no trans columnists on national newspapers"

Jack Monroe is a trans columnist in The Guardian.

Have either of them been prosecuted for a hate crime?

Trial by media, yes. And severely punished.

jj168
"In the UK at least there are no trans columnists on national newspapers"

Debbie Hayton in the Times Education Supplement and the Spectator?

Have either of them been prosecuted for a hate crime?
How could they when they've done nothing wrong? Didn't stop the online mobs picking up the pitchforks and demanding that the heretics be burned.

It's odd that, given the numbers of young females to male transitions, there seem to be no claims on male scholarships.
Have any trans boys tried for Eton scholarships? Or applied to exclusively boys choirs to take advantage of choral scholarships?

What male privileges have transmen received?

@hallouminatus

jj168 "In the UK at least there are no trans columnists on national newspapers"

Diana Thomas is trans woman columnist in the Telegraph.

Fair enough I'd forgotten about her, she only ever seems to get to write about trans issues though which is in itself a sign of marginalisation.

@hallouminatus

jj168 "In the UK at least there are no trans columnists on national newspapers"

Debbie Hayton in the Times Education Supplement and the Spectator?

I meant actual regular columnists, not someone who writes the ocassional column. And neither of them are national newspapers.

Yet again when evidence is provided “I didn’t mean that kind of evidence.”