Anti-FGM campaigner Hibo Wardere comes under attack

[JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown]

Again. I know Hibo has put out more than one video clarifying that her focus is on women and girls and on stopping FGM, but she did another one last night after being piled on and called a hater for not being 'inclusive' in her language.
mobile.twitter.com/HiboWardere/status/1362100744216866825
I am bloody angry about it this morning.
Hibo Wardere is a personal hero of mine for the amazing work she's done.
Attacking her for not focusing on other issues is the lowest of the low. The misogyny is rank.
(Also, if anyone hasn't got her book 'Cut' on their feminist book shelf, I really do recommend it. It's not an easy read but I found her journey incredibly inspiring).

Do you actually think this plays well outside your echo chambers, Dadjoke? I'll give you a headsup, if you like.

[quote DadJoke]@Notoriouslynotnotious

I don't think a campaigner against genital mutiliation should exactly be target number one for people who want language which is inclusive trans men. There are many better causes, and more transphobic individuals. Likewise, it surprises me that GC feminists spend so much of their time and energy against a tiny group of marginalised people, when there are other, more important issues to address.

Yes, it's trans exclusionary women rather than trans exlusionary men who get more attacked, and misogyny is at play there.[/quote]
Such a self- righteous post.

So far as the trans man in that twitter post, I am amazed at the narcissism, lack of sympathy and the inability to recognise what a prat they are.

He could, if he genuinely believes there are trans men who are (self) excluded from services available for the biological requirements of their bodies, have suggested "women, girls and other victims of female genital mutilation"

If the word "female" is too traumatic for the poor wee soul, he could have suggested "women, girls and other victims of such mutilation" or "women, girls and other victims of labial and clitoral mutilation"

Instead it's all about "me, me, me, think about my feelings" despite not being a victim and never having been at the slightest risk of being a victim.

Just read some of the thread and the Twitter.

What jumps out at me, and I'm sure it's been noted already, is that of the posts criticising her language etc the vast vast majority of them are about transwomen.

And there's more than one suggestion that she say cis women.

On the first point, I'd have thought that it should be trans men and non binary female people who should be talked about.

The fact it's all about TW and hardly a mention of TM is very revealing.

On the second point. Cis women (girls but they don't seem to be saying cis girls for some reason) definitely excludes trans men and non binary female people. By their own rules.

So WTF is that all about?
They seem to be using cis to mean biological which is ?????

I'll read more of the thread now.

‘I’m a woman, get over it’

I'm suggesting that the number of trans men who suffer FGM in Somalia is about the same proportion in the population in the UK, not that trans men in the UK are likely to have FGM. In the absence of other data, it's a reasonable assumption.

No, it is not.

On the second point. Cis women (girls but they don't seem to be saying cis girls for some reason) definitely excludes trans men and non binary female people. By their own rules.

I think a lot of these people aren't very bright.

And don't really care about the issue in itself, just that poor MTF trans people's feelings might be hurt that something they can't experience is termed a female issue.

Just like the "inherent cissexism" of a male murderer having "21 pieces of female genitalia in his freezer" was too much for one TRA:

www.womenarehuman.com/trans-rights-activist-misgendering-of-trans-people-worse-than-mutilation-of-women/

I Googled "trans men victims of genital mutilation" to see if I could find any real life examples of a person who is a trans who is a victim of such mutilation.

I didn't find any.

I did find this report. I haven't read all of it. It's called

Current critiques of the WHO policy on female genital mutilation
but it could easily be sub- titled An exercise in whataboutery

www.nature.com/articles/s41443-020-0302-0?proof=t

...who is a trans man who is a victim of such mutilation.

'I'm suggesting that the number of trans men who suffer FGM in Somalia is about the same proportion in the population in the UK, not that trans men in the UK are likely to have FGM. In the absence of other data, it's a reasonable assumption.'

What on earth?

The average age for fgm is under 5.

Under 5 years old.

I just can't believe some of the posts on here.

DadJoke I believe you mentioned Somalia.

'Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) persons in Somalia face legal challenges not experienced by non-LGBT residents. Being LGBT is highly illegal in Somalia;[2] same-sex sexual activity is punishable by up to death in areas controlled by Al-Shabab as well as in Jubaland.[3] LGBT persons are regularly prosecuted by the government[citation needed] and additionally face stigmatization among the broader population.'

Trans people are not mentioned but I can't imagine it's particularly trans friendly either.

If you're concerned about trans people in Somalia that's where you need to put your energies.

Not in policing the words of an fgm activist.

How many under 5s in Somalia who undergo this procedure even know about trans IDs?

IF you genuinely care about this then leave this fgm activist alone and focus your efforts on the major issues for LGBT + people.

For fucks sake.

There is another argument for including 'transboys' though even then it is not a strong link; it has a different cause so should be dealt with separately. That is a repressive sexist ideology is sweeping up young girls and removing sexual function initially through pharmaceutical means. Perhaps that is why Dadjoke is keen to include these vulnerable girls?

If you're someone looking for professional safeguarding training, this morning (31/01/21) is your last chance to get tickets to the session being delivered today via Zoom. Speakers include Hibo.

www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/fgm-awareness-training-with-hibo-wardere-and-gina-sosa-tickets-144257765861

@Tibtom

There is another argument for including 'transboys' though even then it is not a strong link; it has a different cause so should be dealt with separately. That is a repressive sexist ideology is sweeping up young girls and removing sexual function initially through pharmaceutical means. Perhaps that is why Dadjoke is keen to include these vulnerable girls?

I’d so like to think so.

I just can't believe some of the posts on here.

No, me neither. Utterly revolting.

@NiceGerbil

DadJoke I believe you mentioned Somalia.

'Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) persons in Somalia face legal challenges not experienced by non-LGBT residents. Being LGBT is highly illegal in Somalia;[2] same-sex sexual activity is punishable by up to death in areas controlled by Al-Shabab as well as in Jubaland.[3] LGBT persons are regularly prosecuted by the government[citation needed] and additionally face stigmatization among the broader population.'

Trans people are not mentioned but I can't imagine it's particularly trans friendly either.

If you're concerned about trans people in Somalia that's where you need to put your energies.

Not in policing the words of an fgm activist.

How many under 5s in Somalia who undergo this procedure even know about trans IDs?

IF you genuinely care about this then leave this fgm activist alone and focus your efforts on the major issues for LGBT + people.

For fucks sake.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

I have not done or said anything to Hibo Wardere, nor made any comment whatsoever about her other than on this thread in the context of "attacks" on her by transgender individuals. I am not "policing" her words. I don't have to "leave her alone" because I have not interacted with her in any way.

I have, in fact, suggested it would be a good idea for transgender people who have tweeted at her to leave her alone. Her comments on chestfeeding suggest that she is not entirely focused on FGM.

If you think acknowledging the existence of transgender people in Somalia undermines my point, then you have it entirely back to front.

Collecting data on trans men in particular in that region is very hard, but there is some information here.

reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/SVMB-Kenya-Report-10-2019-FINAL.pdf

Her particular version of FGM work

What other versions are there?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Do you actually think this plays well outside your echo chambers, Dadjoke? I'll give you a headsup, if you like.

If you mean my views don't "play well" with GC feminists, I am well aware. I also understand that this is your echo chamber, not mine, and I'm grateful I'm allowed to freely express my views.

If your "headsup "is simply that you think TWAM, that gender identity isn't real and that you think transgender people "already have rights" then I already know that's your view.

If you have any more to add, then I'm all ears, on this thread or by PM as you wish.

I am not dehumanising women by saying trans men have vaginas

That is because transmen are biologically female. Sex matters in all sorts of ways, and for all sorts of reasons.

Even if women in somalia were able to opt out of a cultural expectations placed on females and adopt a role more akin to that of men, I doubt that such a role would fit that of the western gender ideologues idea of a 'transman' so to use the phrase 'transmen' is western imperialism. Don't you think african countries have suffered enough from that?

Just a reminder of the actual words that Dadjoke used on this thread about Hibo:

She's clearly slightly transphobic, yes. She has never said "it's because I don't want to dilute my message that I don't want to include trans men." When she talks about women, she's explicitly referring to biology, as do most posters here - it's trans exclusionary, the very definition of transphobic

Women are telling you to leave her and all the women fighting FGM alone. There are some battles that are not yours to appropriate and this is one of them.

I am perfectly well aware of that, and my concern was raised by a friend who investigated the issue a few years ago

Dadjoke....I'm not sure how long you've been involved with women's issues, or with feminism ( however you define it), but it really cannot have been that long if it is only in the last few years that you have been alerted to the realities of FGM.

You must be aware that most people who post here have been aware of and intimately involved with such issues for many years, in many cases decades. This is not a trendy issue, like 'period poverty', which has been taken up by those with an interest in furthering the cause of transgenderism.

The reason that people are so intimate and well acquainted with such issues is because they are women, are female, and so such issues are very close to home.

@Justhadathought

Her particular version of FGM work

What other versions are there?

There are a number of charities and advocates who work with victims of FGM. Some are raising awareness in the West, some are working to change laws, and some are on the ground raising awareness in classrooms and local communties. Some work with refugees in the West and prevent FGM in communities which still practice FGM.

Wardere is a campaigner based in the UK, raising awareness in the west about the issue, campaigning against it in communities here. She does excellent work. My money goes to charities which work for changes in the law and work on the ground in Africa. It's not either/or.

If you mean my views don't "play well" with GC feminists, I am well aware. I also understand that this is your echo chamber, not mine, and I'm grateful I'm allowed to freely express my views

This particular 'echo chamber' is simply a rather more concentrated version of what exists in the real world. The world in which sex exists and in which sex matters. The world in which concepts of transgenderism are a novelty, or unheard of. The world in which young girls are subject to FGM.

You are indeed very fortunate to be able to express your views here, but that is accepted by and large, even though your points will continue to be challenged. It does not take much probing to reveal what lies beneath the protestations.

Your focus seems mainly to be mainly on children and young people; perhaps because you are the parent of such a child. And as a parent, we get the instincts to protect. That is why the feeling runs so strong on this issue.....because as with FGM, the idea that a child's body should be suppressed and surgically wounded in order for that child to conform to societal expectation is an anathema.

If you think acknowledging the existence of transgender people in Somalia undermines my point, then you have it entirely back to front

Countries and communities in which sex roles are rigidly enforced, and in which homosexuality is a prohibited sin, are likely to be particularly susceptible to ideas around transgenderism - for obvious reasons.

I often wonder whether the religiosity of the U.S makes it more susceptible too, on this account.