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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anti-FGM campaigner Hibo Wardere comes under attack

510 replies

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown · 19/02/2021 08:20

Again. I know Hibo has put out more than one video clarifying that her focus is on women and girls and on stopping FGM, but she did another one last night after being piled on and called a hater for not being 'inclusive' in her language.
mobile.twitter.com/HiboWardere/status/1362100744216866825
I am bloody angry about it this morning.
Hibo Wardere is a personal hero of mine for the amazing work she's done.
Attacking her for not focusing on other issues is the lowest of the low. The misogyny is rank.
(Also, if anyone hasn't got her book 'Cut' on their feminist book shelf, I really do recommend it. It's not an easy read but I found her journey incredibly inspiring).

OP posts:
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RedToothBrush · 01/04/2021 09:14

“Trans women are women, but this issue cannot affect them”

^Because they aren’t biologically female.
Because they are TRANSwomen.^

How can TWAW be so vehemently asserted on the one hand, and then the fundamental difference between “females” and “transwomen” be so bluntly stated? How can you believe the first whilst acknowledging the second?

Sex is important. It should not be made invisible by gender. Because when you try to, you get fuckers on twitter telling a black woman she's transphobic by talking about things in sex terms.

We need to identify times when trans people are different to the sex they claim they are simply so these issues have proper visibility over what the issues relating to biology and social conditioning due to sex (not gender) are.

If you can't see sex, you can't see sexism.

By all means talk about gender as a completely separate thing. Distinguish it. Own the 'trans' part of experience without removing women's ability (or gay men's for that matter) need to express their own individual experience which is not the 'default'.

Personally I think gender is extremely sexist in its own right but I would have far less issues with the situation if sex was very clearly separate and we weren't seeing attempts to remove sex as a protected characteristic in the Equality Act by major lobbying groups who claim to be supporting minorities and vulnerable groups (and are completely failing in their remit in doing so).

The deliberate conflation of sex and gender is the biggest problem with hardline trans activism. If you are born male you can never become female and vice versa. This kinda sucks for a lot of people - including those who aren't trans because sometimes it sucks to have certain biology because that affects your life experience and how others treat you.

Telling people to ignore reality and to use 'more inclusive language' is just abusive. This includes telling women that males are actually female. They are not. We need to address the safeguarding and abuse issues that affect women.

The whole thing is about balance and the need to actually be inclusive - as in recognise the issues women face due to their biology - as being separate and unique and that if you are trans you have different battles to fight. They may be valid battles but they are different and often at odds with those of women.

Language use is hugely important to the fight for recognising abuse and discrimination of women.

Transwomen are women is a thought terminating cliche which is used to silence women into submission. Transmen are men is a thought terminating cliche which stops us from asking questions about the sudden rise of a new cohort declaring they do not wish to be female anymore. We need to ask these questions for the safety and well-being of all. We need to define women on biological terms alone for scientific and legal reasons.

We need to talk about how FGM only affects females. It is exclusively a woman's issue. More than that its an issue that pretty much doesn't affect white women. Instead this is being used to say that males are a sub-group of women just like black women which is deeply racist and offensive, on top of the issues of trying to bully women into accepting gender over sex.

And the most galling thing of all is deep down we know that even the most ardent trans activism know this and know there is a difference between gender and sex and have the honour of being allowed to make that distinction in little remarks like this when it suits. Women on the other hand are abused and slurred in a non neutral way of being 'gender critical feminists' as if they are shit on shoes. "Eeeewww gender critical".

The bottom line is that we get abuse for pointing out this utter sexism. We are told we are bigotted. This isn't ok. Its not ok when its identified by men and trans activists and get this, its still not ok when its deliberately hidden and ignored by men and trans activists.

FGM only affects women. Thats not ciswomen. Just women. The word is ours. It has meaning and importance because sexism.

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CircleofWillis · 01/04/2021 10:05

@PotholeParadies

For the purposes of clarity, this thread has made me feel like I was watching a rich, well-dressed man boast about choosing not to give food to a starving man in the street, because the begging notice had a spelling mistake in it.

I think to me it more like the rich, well dressed businessman is refusing to give money because the homeless person isn't wearing vegan shoes.

The homeless person hasn't made a mistake. They just doesn't share the businessman's privileged beliefs.
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CircleofWillis · 01/04/2021 10:13

Don't Blush

I guess that businessman won't be giving me money either 😞

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Mugginyouleftrightandcentre · 01/04/2021 10:14

Trans women are women, but this issue cannot affect them and this distracts from and confuses the message.

Transwomen are women, except on issues which only affect women.

Right, got it Hmm

Must be nice to be able to opt into womanhood like that.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/04/2021 11:46

I think to me it more like the rich, well dressed businessman is refusing to give money because the homeless person isn't wearing vegan shoes.

The homeless person hasn't made a mistake. They just doesn't share the businessman's privileged beliefs.

Yes, that is the direct equivalent here.

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andyoldlabour · 01/04/2021 12:14

"Trans women are women, but this issue cannot affect them and this distracts from and confuses the message."

So close, so close yet so far.
This issue cannot affect them, because a transwoman is not a human female. If a transwoman really was a woman, then there would be no need for transgender rights.

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R0wantrees · 01/04/2021 12:39

The disruption intention is to deny that girl and woman are descriptors for those humans (child or adult) who are the female sex.
I wonder if those so invested in this denial also spend days every Autumn on forums elsewhere discussing the Movember campaigns for men's health.

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persistentwoman · 01/04/2021 12:44

So many powerful posts but this nails the offensive racist views displayed at times on this thread:

Sex is important. It should not be made invisible by gender. Because when you try to, you get fuckers on twitter telling a black woman she's transphobic by talking about things in sex terms

We need to talk about how FGM only affects females. It is exclusively a woman's issue. More than that its an issue that pretty much doesn't affect white women. Instead this is being used to say that males are a sub-group of women just like black women which is deeply racist and offensive, on top of the issues of trying to bully women into accepting gender over sex

Thank you RTB.

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ArabellaScott · 01/04/2021 13:08

@Sophoclesthefox

The faithful can never let the recusants and the apostates alone.

I’m being neutral when I call you a heretic.

Aye, this.
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Datun · 01/04/2021 15:26

@Mugginyouleftrightandcentre

Trans women are women, but this issue cannot affect them and this distracts from and confuses the message.

Transwomen are women, except on issues which only affect women.

Right, got it Hmm

Must be nice to be able to opt into womanhood like that.

Extraordinary isn't it!
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Sophoclesthefox · 01/04/2021 16:12

I wonder if there’s a particular move that you can do when the cognitive dissonance gets too much and you need to squash it down? like a heimlich manoeuvre, but in reverse, to create a blockage instead of dislodging one....stop those dangerous thoughts in their tracks.

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MichelleofzeResistance · 01/04/2021 16:14

Oh ffs.

Look, on the narrative I'm supposed to follow: TWAW because black women are women and disabled women are women and Jewish women are women and vegan women are women... it's supposed to be just an adjective describing the group.

I'm not going to unpack that (and what I personally disagree with) because there's dozens of threads, but if that's the received educated wisdom we are supposed to be following, can I just point out:

Black women do not kick off when disabled women have an issue specific to their disability because it doesn't include or centre them

Jewish women don't kick off when Coeliac women want to talk or fund raise about issues specific to them.

In fact those women are quite capable of either saying this isn't about me and carrying on with their lives, or supporting other women. Because women. And issues affecting women, kind of a team issue for women.

There is no reason why TW need to kick off about the many categories of women who have female biology and need to talk about and act on things specific to the characteristic they have in common, it's indefensible. Those who are women should support other women.

And frankly anyone whose response to a little girl being captured, unconsenting, restrained and mutilated unanaesthetised, to prevent her ever having sexual enjoyment or pleasure while providing it to a male partner, to conform to a cultural idea of keeping females 'clean' and leaving her with lifetime gynae problems is to be upset as a biologically adult male that they feel excluded......?

It's time to have a serious word with yourself and work out what the fuck has happened to your basic empathy and your attitude towards female people.

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PotholeParadies · 01/04/2021 16:19
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ChattyLion · 01/04/2021 21:36

👏👏👏

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ArabellaScott · 01/04/2021 22:17

Star Michelle.

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IDontOnlyLikeJazzFunk · 01/04/2021 22:37

And frankly anyone whose response to a little girl being captured, unconsenting, restrained and mutilated unanaesthetised, to prevent her ever having sexual enjoyment or pleasure while providing it to a male partner, to conform to a cultural idea of keeping females 'clean' and leaving her with lifetime gynae problems is to be upset as a biologically adult male that they feel excluded......?

It's time to have a serious word with yourself and work out what the fuck has happened to your basic empathy and your attitude towards female people.

Star Star Star 100% this Michelle. Saying it, defending it or thinking it. Just no.

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Maudythebudgie · 01/04/2021 22:51

@RedToothBrush awesome, awesome post. Thank you.

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Maudythebudgie · 01/04/2021 22:53

Oh, and @Michell

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Maudythebudgie · 01/04/2021 22:54

Oops., @MichelleofzeResistance thank you, thank you.

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CharlieParley · 02/04/2021 00:37

Brava, MichelleofzeResistance

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DropDTuning · 02/04/2021 10:54

@Michelleofzeresistance

Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yes

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MenopausalCrone · 05/04/2021 08:46

Red and Michelle....what a finale! I really don't think there is any more to say on this matter.

Dad Joke...you are a joke and I feel deeply sorry for you and really hope you find your heart and brain again someday. Good luck

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stonecat · 17/05/2021 23:43

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PurgatoryOfPotholes · 04/02/2022 08:49

If you recall this thread and you were furious on Hibo's behalf, please consider channelling your rage into a donation to her latest initiative to eliminate FGM.

crowdfunder description

I've started an organisation called *Educate Not Mutilate (more details on that to follow!) with my friend Faiza and our first project will be holding awareness workshops for pupils, teachers and parents in schools across the Boroughs with the highest prevalence of FGM in London:

These are some of the most impoverished areas of London, where schools are bogged down with many social problems and tight budgets. That's why I'm hoping we can raise £5,000 to run free education workshops for already overstretched schools. This will help protect girls and young women from FGM while also starting to change the attitudes that allow this harmful practice to happen.

My tried and tested teaching format, which is inline with the educational curriculum, will address the following:

Students and parents
Types of FGM
Open discussion:
Is it religious?
Is it cultural?
Is it abuse
Short video
Q&A

Professionals.
Teachers.
Students.
Parents.
Health implications
Prevalence, the context and rise of FGM
Risk indicators / safeguarding
Mandatory reporting duty
Support pathways
Exploring concerns with and supporting students

About me

I, Hibo Wardere, am an educator and campaigner against female genital mutilation (FGM). I experienced FGM in Somalia as a six year-old girl and understood from a young age that what had happened to me was deeply wrong. I later made her way to the UK as a refugee and embarked on a journey to educate myself and ultimately others, about FGM – the reason it happens and its impact on women and wider society. What I found was child abuse, deeply rooted in many cultures, often carried out in the name of religion and protected by Western societies that don’t want to interfere. My mission is to liberate the women and girls who have been harmed and are at risk of this practice by bringing an end to FGM.

*Educate Not Mutilate is currently a Constituted Community Group, soon be registered as a Charity

Link to get to it: twitter.com/HiboWardere/status/1489388442043703299?t=tu-Uog9cgfRjjbt3G2JX4Q&s=19

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Barbarantia · 04/02/2022 09:19

Donated. Thank you.

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