Anti-FGM campaigner Hibo Wardere comes under attack

[JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown]

Again. I know Hibo has put out more than one video clarifying that her focus is on women and girls and on stopping FGM, but she did another one last night after being piled on and called a hater for not being 'inclusive' in her language.
mobile.twitter.com/HiboWardere/status/1362100744216866825
I am bloody angry about it this morning.
Hibo Wardere is a personal hero of mine for the amazing work she's done.
Attacking her for not focusing on other issues is the lowest of the low. The misogyny is rank.
(Also, if anyone hasn't got her book 'Cut' on their feminist book shelf, I really do recommend it. It's not an easy read but I found her journey incredibly inspiring).

Woman = adult human female
Girl = juvenile human female

There are no other definitions of either 'woman' or 'girl'. I say that with confidence, because whenever an alternative definition has been requested, nobody has ever put forward anything remotely cogent.

Hibo is using the words correctly, working with communities where the very concept of a transman is vanishingly rare.

We do not need to twist our language into knots to avoid biological reality. Hibo is right.

We used to have community values where it was recognised that safeguarding children and safeguarding the vulnerable was sacrosanct - that the most vulnerable in society were owed protection by the majority and we have held to account individuals / groups who failed to do this. So it's a depressing experience watching this most vulnerable group of girls is being deliberately targeted in order to shore up a male dominated ideology that demands complete obedience from everyone.

I struggle to find the appropriate language to describe my thoughts about those who double down and repeat these slurs against Hibo.

@NatalieShortman

Sure, I'd like to see a single tweet acknowledging that she includes intersex people and trans men, but that's not a demand.

Intersex women are women. Stop othering them. They are not a third sex.

I am merely reporting what an intersex person said, and did not for one moment say that intersex people are a third sex. You put those words in my mouth.

@Helleofabore

Sure, I'd like to see a single tweet acknowledging that she includes intersex people and trans men, but that's not a demand.

What % of FGM victims are intersex and transmen out of interest?

About the same proportion as in the general population. Unsuprisingly, there is no good data from Somalia.

I'm so glad there's a man about to educate a woman who has been through FGM on how she should refer to her experiences.

But she does work for all women and girls

Black women and girls. Blind women and girls. Egyptian women and girls. Kenyan women and girls and the list could go on. But what unites them all is that they are women and girls

@Mugginyouleftrightandcentre

*Prostate Cancer UK usually talks about men suffering from prostate cancer (because it's almost always men) but reminds people once in a while that trans women have prostates, too.

And yet, women's health charities are falling over themselves to never utter the word 'woman' but instead 'people with a cervix, uterus havers and birthing bodies'.

Prostate Cancer UK's entire campaign revolves around the word MEN, it's all over their stuff. And I haven't seen much in the way of any reminders that transwomen have prostates (shhhhhhh!)

You are wrong. They center men, but acknowledge that trans women also suffer from prostate cancer.

twitter.com/search?q=(from%3AProstateUK)%20trans%20women&src=typed_query

I'd love to see her mention trans men, just once, but that's a wish not a demand.

Why? I really want to understand why you want someone campaigning against a horrific practice of mutilating little girls' bodies to acknowledge the fringe ideological beliefs of tiny numbers of female Westerners wholly unaffected by this practice. I don't get it.

This is a genuine question.

Why is it not enough that we accept your right to hold this belief? Why must we publicly acknowledge the belief's validity and espouse it, too?

I've never done the latter two with any religion. I doubt I ever will. On the contrary, I have analysed, critised, questioned, ridiculed and sometimes condemned various religions and their practices. I am convinced the world would be a better place without religion. But I would never interfere with anyone's right to practice their religion. I don't dispute they exist. I bear no ill will towards their believers.

My very religious friend thinks I'm totally wrong about all of the above, but what she doesn't think is that I'm phobic, hateful or bigoted for my disbelief.

So why can I not say I do not believe in the doctrine of gender identity without being told that I am all of those things?

That Touchstone project that dadj mentioned isn't really coming close to what Hibo is doing for young girls and women.

The project will support non-pregnant women who are aged 18 and over and who are survivors of FGM. The clinics will deliver services to both recent and non-recent victims, and can assist in police investigations of the FGM offence against them, only if they wish to do so.

This clinic run on a Tuesday is to support the needs of adult victims (I'm not sure why they need to be not-pregnant - maybe there is another service for them?) but is not campaigning and doesn't seem to be run by people like Hibo who share the ethnic background of the girls who are the victims so may lack a true understanding of the issues they face.

I think that advocates for 'inclusive' language may have forgotten that English will be Hibo's second or even third language. Her victims and the people she is campaigning against will have English as a second or third language.

Due to the culture of not educating girls (or limiting their education), most girls are unlikely to know what a cervix is (nearly half of fully educated adults don't know what a cervix is!) so this language would be completely pointless.

In any case, what on earth has a cervix got to do with FGM?? In case certain people are not aware FGM means cutting of a girl's labia and clitoris with an often rusty blade and no anaesthetic and sewing her up to make a small hole for weeing. The cervix is utterly irrelevant.

Why would a person who has not suffered from FGM (the tweeter appears to be a confused anime fan originally from Poland but now in London) wish to interfere with a campaigner from Somalia who has very specific knowledge and understanding of the cultural and language issues around this topic? Why anyone in their rights mind defend this person.

I would be interested to know how Touchstone have identified that FGM is an issue for transmen, why they are only interesting in girls over 18 and how many they will get through the doors?

I wonder if they have considered the issues that having male presenting people in the clinic might have for women that often have very strict cultural restrictions on where they can go? Will this clinic end up excluding victims of FGM?? It may be difficult to explain trans to a girl with no English.

You are wrong. They center men, but acknowledge that trans women also suffer from prostate cancer.

Right so that's one tweet acknowledging that transwomen have prostates.

Still, their entire campaign revolves around the words 'man and men'. Their tagline is #menwearewithyou, their badge is called the 'Man of Men' badge, and is the shape of a man made up of lots of smaller images of shapes of men. Let's just say there is a definite theme!

Meanwhile, women are getting shat on from a great height for uttering such heresy as 'only women have a uterus' and women's health charities are tying themselves in knots trying to get the message across without ever using the word 'woman' or 'girl' for fear of offending someone. And now it has moved onto FGM activists. Great.

When she talks about women, she's explicitly referring to biology, as do most posters here - it's trans exclusionary, the very definition of transphobic.

On that basis I'm perfectly happy to be transphobic.

Sure, I'd like to see a single tweet acknowledging that she includes intersex people and trans men, but that's not a demand.

And if she does this, how much are you going to increase your regular donation by?

Have you thought about whether doing this will hamper Hibo's efforts to communicate with people at risk of being subjected to FGM (i.e. not you) and the people who perform and support FGM (presumably also not you)?

I rather think Hibo has.

It all seems to crap on the original concept of diversity from a great height.

Maybe after she has acknowledged transmen and intersex people she can also include other demographics just so they don't feel excluded by a campaign that doesn't affect them either

I think she is doing great work.
I think it's unwise for the tiny handful of trans men and intersex people who are upset by her language to tweet at her.
I'd love to see her mention trans men, just once, but that's a wish not a demand.

You have also said she is transphobic (no matter how 'mildly' you put it). You have said she dealt with someone 'harshly' when they attempted to correct her thinking.

You'd 'love' to see her mention transmen therefore, you are in fact, trying to also correct her thinking. I am not sure that stating you think she is doing good work negates the fact you found the way she dealt with the 'unwise' transman 'harsh' in my view. You undermine her efforts by trying to shape her message.

Hibo is a victim campaigning for women and children. She is directly in touch with these victims, she knows their stories. I would put more faith in Hibo to get the language of her message right than a person on the internet. Both here in the UK and in Somalia.

Why do you think, in the absence of any statistics for how many trans men or people with DSDs are involved in this brutalisation, that you have more expertise that Hibo?

I am sorry, I don't buy your 'same % of the population'. I think you might find it is a whole lot more targeted than that and it is completely disingenuous to say so.

And are you saying that FGM happens to male's with differences of sex development? Because people with differences of sex development are either male or female except in extremely rare cases. Are you using people's medical conditions to progress your opinions?

Only just got this far in the thread & reading the comments on this tweet.. I was half tempted to join twitter just to reply to Nora. Funny how Nora knows girls & women are "Cis" if they are victims of FGM... I mean talk about throwing TM & non-binary people under the bus there. (if they really think they are inclusive).

This may be the thing that has made me "peak". It's FEMALE genital mutilation of course nobody is going to talk about males.

If you want to campaign against circumcision then bloody do it no one is stopping you!

FGM is inherently exclusive because it's only relating to one sex

You are wrong. They center men, but acknowledge that trans women also suffer from prostate cancer.

Thanks for also posting this gem. So, a prostate cancer posts mostly about 'men' but occasionally about 'transwomen' and you think that is the same as the degree of forced language change that women are currently facing?

I think that any readers of this board will be very aware of just how much pressure women's organisations are under to use dehumanising language vs men's organisations.

@PotholeParadies

Sure, I'd like to see a single tweet acknowledging that she includes intersex people and trans men, but that's not a demand.

And if she does this, how much are you going to increase your regular donation by?

Have you thought about whether doing this will hamper Hibo's efforts to communicate with people at risk of being subjected to FGM (i.e. not you) and the people who perform and support FGM (presumably also not you)?

I rather think Hibo has.

I don't think mentioning trans men, just once, in a tweet, will hamper her ability to fight. Quite the opposite - she'll get a bunch more allies.

I donate to charities that deal with FGM, but I have not donated to her.

If she does, I'll donate £500 to her charity, not that I can see any way that will happen. I certainly won't bother her.

Well I think she's bloody fantastic and I appreciate the links to ways to support her. Still have no idea what her work has to do with transgender issues.

So there are some people out there who will only ally with a fight against girls having their clitorises cut out if they get their very own name check?
Good to know.

@DadJoke

The fact you are so keen that trans men be included in this discourse just proves, doesn’t it, that it is female people that suffer from this practice - and it is sex based oppression and fuck all to do with gender.

That would be a start, so we could get in with discussing sex based oppression instead of people trying to claim everything is due to gender.

Back home girls are likely to be taken to the hospital to be opened up which is called Deinfibulation. Mostly will be ripped apart by their husband. Then that morning families from both sides come to see if the bed is soaked in blood. Nighmare

There are people who read stuff like this and then have the absolute gall to ask "but what about meeeeeeeeeeeee"

FUCK OFF

About the same proportion as in the general population. Unsuprisingly, there is no good data from Somalia.

Excellent. You obviously have statistics though for the UK. Please share. We will wait.

Or maybe, there are significant influences within that demographic that would show your 'about the same proportion' to be a false claim, when considering variables such as age and more specifically, ethnic background and religion. I am very happy to be proven wrong though.

@Helleofabore

You are wrong. They center men, but acknowledge that trans women also suffer from prostate cancer.

Thanks for also posting this gem. So, a prostate cancer posts mostly about 'men' but occasionally about 'transwomen' and you think that is the same as the degree of forced language change that women are currently facing?

I think that any readers of this board will be very aware of just how much pressure women's organisations are under to use dehumanising language vs men's organisations.

I think Prostate Cancer UK's approach is just fine - I don't have an issue with it.

I don't have an issue with guidance to midwives which suggests that when dealing with trans men, use the term chest feeding. I think when talking about medical issues related to sex, mentioning the main category (men or women) and then flagging up trans men or trans women is a perfectly decent approach. I think it's unwise to remove gender designations altogether when almost all the people affected are of a particular gender.

I do agree that trans men are more centered than trans women for these medical issues.

Helleofabore

Sure, I'd like to see a single tweet acknowledging that she includes intersex people and trans men, but that's not a demand.

What % of FGM victims are intersex and transmen out of interest?

DadJoke:
'About the same proportion as in the general population. Unsuprisingly, there is no good data from Somalia.'

Really - you would suggest that the same % transmen and intersex people in the UK (or anywhere else for that matter)have suffered FGM as women? Do you honestly believe that? Don't you think Hibo Wardere would be well aware and on the case if this was actually the fact.

Trans issues have to be front and centre of everything now, don't they? For something which impacts a vanishingly small minority of people it amazes me that other people's lives are being turned upside down to accommodate the feelings of this tiny minority. Sick of it. I am so incredibly angry today, what with Scottish politics being in turmoil, Twitter being such a cess pit and women being told to be kind, or basically shut the fuck up when they raise pefectly valid concerns.