Fairplay for women take ONS to judicial review for redefining sex in census

[fatblackcatspaw]

fairplayforwomen.com/

I expect some people are waiting to see what ONS do by tomorrow’s deadline and whether their guidance is withdrawn. Friday is pay day for many too, so there may be new first or second donations to reach the limit once people have been paid.

Yes I'll be donating again on Friday

Great news. Donated

On £53,255 currently

Caught up with WH on the Sounds app. I thought the segment was really good. Nancy Kelly sounded to me as if she thought she was explaining something very complicated to people incapable of deep understanding, like when you give small children the very very very simple version that is so abridged it’s not really true. Patronising as fuck to be honest, like she wasn’t even convincing herself and either didn’t understand the issue with the sex guidance or didn’t want to admit it is an issue. And then Dr Nic came on and succinctly explained the issue, how poorly thought through it all was and why it is a much wider issue.

I’m really surprised that ONS have said nothing on this. I’m wondering if they actually want the legal action, because people who work for the ONS must be the kind of people that actually do understand the importance of accurate data, they’ve just caved to pressure from queer-theory lobbyists as many have, but wouldn’t mind being “made” to correct the guidance but be able to blame someone else when the TRAs get angry with them.

If ONS don't back down I'll definitely find some more carrots on Friday.

On the topic of expecting a boost in the crowdfunder - I don’t think it was made clear that donations are being sought - certainly the BBC couldn’t be seen to “promote” it could they.

The target will be reached - it’s only been open a few days and payday looms.

Donated.

@Cwenthryth

On the topic of expecting a boost in the crowdfunder - I don’t think it was made clear that donations are being sought - certainly the BBC couldn’t be seen to “promote” it could they.

The target will be reached - it’s only been open a few days and payday looms.

Yes, you’re right of course. So totally inured to all publicity being linked to fundraising I didn’t think. Shame- bet plenty would donate in this cause. Pure data is really unarguable, you’d think.

like she wasn’t even convincing herself and either didn’t understand the issue with the sex guidance or didn’t want to admit it is an issue

I often get this feeling - that people start to explain that it’s just a simple issue of women “being nice” and then can’t justify their position when challenged so double-down. I want to “be nice” - I really really do, it would be much simpler for me personally. But it’s not really an option, alas. But with any critical thinking anyway.

It was disappointing that when asked "but no one reads the guidance", Nicola didn't make the point that the very people who will read it are trans people. Most people won't read it as they won't be in any doubt what to put for the sex question, but the ones who do are the crucial ones.

but no one reads the guidance

I can't believe that was stonewall's opening gambit. They literally didn't argue for the guidance but argued that it didn't matter if it wasn't clear.

... which is probably why the ONS didn't turn up, as they would have to defend guidance that allows people to complete the census inaccurately.

@Cwenthryth

Caught up with WH on the Sounds app. I thought the segment was really good. Nancy Kelly sounded to me as if she thought she was explaining something very complicated to people incapable of deep understanding, like when you give small children the very very very simple version that is so abridged it’s not really true. Patronising as fuck to be honest, like she wasn’t even convincing herself and either didn’t understand the issue with the sex guidance or didn’t want to admit it is an issue. And then Dr Nic came on and succinctly explained the issue, how poorly thought through it all was and why it is a much wider issue.

I’m really surprised that ONS have said nothing on this. I’m wondering if they actually want the legal action, because people who work for the ONS must be the kind of people that actually do understand the importance of accurate data, they’ve just caved to pressure from queer-theory lobbyists as many have, but wouldn’t mind being “made” to correct the guidance but be able to blame someone else when the TRAs get angry with them.

I think you could be right on the money there with your last paragraph. Not sure if that means ONS have been cowardly or SW have been incredibly forthright, or a bit of both.

NK showing what happens when you spend years shouting No Debate.

When asked to - you can't.

ONS have under 7 hours left to withdraw the guidance & Fair Play for Women need under 14,000 veg to make their target! Let’s keep digging!

I’d love to be a fly on the wall in the ONS. Even if it is to see them doing sweet FA.

I’ll be digging more after I know that ONS have not backed down.

Do they actually have to make an announcement one way or the other or can they just say nothing and trigger proceedings that way?

fairplayforwomen.com/legal-grounds-fpfw-v-ons/

I think they have to agree to withdraw the guidance, and announce it by 6pm.

But presumably if they were going to do that, they would likely have done so already?

So radio silence suggests they're not going to back down?

I don't think ons have to say 'we are not withdrawing...' fpfw will apply for permission to bring a judicial review if they don't hear.
I don't know what the chances are of being given permission. How it seems to work is that there is a hearing where initial evidence is put forward so the court can say - yes there's a possibility this decision was unlawful so there should be a Jr, or not.

I'd be inclined to agree @greatpurplepolkadots

Although I said that I thought Cwenthryth was on the money with ONS not wanting to lose face to SW, isn't it a sad state of affairs that instead they have lost respect of those who know what accurate data means and the importance of collecting it.

I've just seen this - a new group called Sex in the Census. Looks like a useful website:
sexinthecensus.org

just donated

@Leafstamp

I'd be inclined to agree *@greatpurplepolkadots*

Although I said that I thought Cwenthryth was on the money with ONS not wanting to lose face to SW, isn't it a sad state of affairs that instead they have lost respect of those who know what accurate data means and the importance of collecting it.

But isn’t it an oft repeated phenomenon, that people would rather lose professional credibility, agree the sky is green, grass is blue and go along with it to appease, than stand up against SW etc? We see it time and time again across the board. Everyone is too scared to say no, and be branded a bigot for disagreeing (ironically, seeing as bigotry is the intolerance of others different from you).

Perhaps it did have an effect now 81% carrotted including two very large donations one of £1000 and one of £900