Fair Cop Court of Appeal 8-10 March

[Spero]

Please save the date! This is such an important hearing for freedom of speech, particularly around the issues of sex and gender.

The hearing will be for 1 1/2 days some time between 8-10 March, we don't have an exact listing yet.

Hopefully there will be some live tweeting.

Do support if you can.

twitter.com/WeAreFairCop/status/1361820204649639951?s=20

Hope your child is fine and doing well outed

Didn't see anything about specific children in the live tweeting about the case but I admit it went a bit fast for me.

@outedbyfaircop

well that's weird, because there are threads and threads on here extrapolating that trans people are all violent narcissistic pervs because of the things that 'specific individuals' have done and said.

I don't think there have been any threads that extrapolate that. No one has said that all trans people are violent narcissistic pervs. The actions of specific individuals are used to show that there could be an impact on woman and girls and the specific spaces and services created for them - as these actions of specific individuals did have an impact at that time on others. It is not unrealistic to assume that such actions by some individuals could happen again.

Correction ....there are endless posts from people claiming that everyone is saying that trans people are ...

There are also a fair number of posts that state that an alarming proportion of men commit various offences against women

Try to read more carefully.

@outedbyfaircop

well that's weird, because there are threads and threads on here extrapolating that trans people are all violent narcissistic pervs because of the things that 'specific individuals' have done and said.

That just isn’t true. If you believe it is, you're going to have to provide links. I’m sorry that your family had to go through what happened, with your child going missing. I have been in your position except my child did not claim to be trans. Its every parent’s worst nightmare. I think its hard for parents a without a trans child to accept that you didn’t think presenting the facts about your child was more important that affirming their gender identity. Yes, when someone goes missing, an accurate physical description is important, and if your child looks like a boy then that should be made clear. But to ignore their material biology in such a situation? Thats hard to understand.

@ArabellaScott

I am very sorry to hear your child ran away, tho, outed. Hope all is better, now and you are both safe and well.

thanks Arabella, thankfully a change of education setting and additional cahms support has worked wonders, but nearly every parent of teens I know says their child is struggling with their mental health in one way or another. lockdown has been absolutely terrible for kids' mental health, I really think we are looking at a time bomb.

@outedbyfaircop for you, that would have been such a truly horrendous thing to go through. Wishing you all well.

Outed
When MOJ stats show that a disproportionate number of TW in the prison estate have been convicted of sex offences it’s reasonable to assume that some violent pervs will pretend to be trans to get access to women.
That is very different from saying Trans people are a threat. Violent Pervs are a threat no matter how they identify trans or not trans.

Outed
I am glad to hear your son is doing better now.
Whilst I understand your frustration this case has really wide implications and we will be focusing on that when the court sits again tomorrow.

@outedbyfaircop I have to take issue with that assertion, because that is entirely untrue.

No one here has ever said that all trans individuals are any of those things you said.

I think its hard for parents a without a trans child to accept that you didn’t think presenting the facts about your child was more important that affirming their gender identity. Yes, when someone goes missing, an accurate physical description is important, and if your child looks like a boy then that should be made clear. But to ignore their material biology in such a situation? Thats hard to understand.

you know what I find hard to understand? that posters on a parenting site are defending people exploiting a family's worst moments for political clout, defending all the ghoulish prurient speculation about my kid turning up murdered. all so they could make a point. fair cop put my child in danger. for people so concerned with safeguarding children, it's insane to me that people are defending this. and how telling that people are more interested in demanding I link to transphobic posts (which are deleted under mn guidelines) than engaging with this. I know it's hard when your faves are problematic, I really do. but if you are going to demand that other people examine uncomfortable truths within their movement, you have to be prepared to turn that same lens on yourself.

Anyway I am very keen not to engage in any derailment of this thread because it’s hugely important and, as pp have said, this really does have very important implications.

this is a thread about fair cop? I am posting about fair cop. I'm sorry you don't like the things I am saying. but I thought they'd be interested in being accountable and addressing my concerns, on a thread where they are posting prolifically.

@outedbyfaircop but if your child didn't want to be found, having run away, then they may well have stopped dressing like a boy to avoid being found as easily. And considering they actually are female, to dupe the public in the description is pretty....odd.
I'd have said a girl, who usually dresses and presents as a boy.
Males and females even move differently, someone seeing a girl walk by, would not think she were the missing 'boy'.

@outedbyfaircop

this is a thread about fair cop? I am posting about fair cop. I'm sorry you don't like the things I am saying. but I thought they'd be interested in being accountable and addressing my concerns, on a thread where they are posting prolifically.

I don’t know if that’s directed at me, but in case it is, this isn’t ‘about fair cop’. This is about free speech, which is a hugely important overriding principle which needs protecting and reinforcing.

I don’t particularly dislike the things you’re saying. I’m perfectly happy for you to continue saying whatever you want on this thread, since that is your prerogative.

I have said that one thing you have claimed is entirely untrue, and that’s because it is entirely untrue.

I don’t want to derail the thread, and I don’t see the point of arguing, either. So I was simply explaining that I am no longer going to engage in this particular discussion.

Thanks Spero, will keep an eye on Twitter tomorrow. Hoping for more sunlight now that spring is here.

[quote Numicon]@outedbyfaircop but if your child didn't want to be found, having run away, then they may well have stopped dressing like a boy to avoid being found as easily. And considering they actually are female, to dupe the public in the description is pretty....odd.
I'd have said a girl, who usually dresses and presents as a boy.
Males and females even move differently, someone seeing a girl walk by, would not think she were the missing 'boy'.[/quote]
guess who, I know my child, and he would never present as female, even as a disguise. you're reaching a bit here to defend the indefensible. I described my child as he looks and is perceived by others. I know how he looks and is perceived by others, as he is my child and I have known him all his life. or perhaps you know him better than I do? what colour are his eyes?

@PurpleWh1teGreen

Thanks Spero, will keep an eye on Twitter tomorrow. Hoping for more sunlight now that spring is here.

yes, I too am enjoying all the sunlight.

Outed
If you feel this strongly please would you consider starting your own thread.

This thread is about a human rights case being heard in the Court of Appeal today and tomorrow. It is not about we are Fair Cop as an organisation.

This is about free speech, which is a hugely important overriding principle which needs protecting and reinforcing.

do you agree with 'but free speech' being a justification for wading into a sensitive situation about which they knew absolutely fuck all, and putting an already very vulnerable child in further danger? is it free speech to shout 'fire' in a crowded theatre?

. I know how he looks and is perceived by others

This is the worry of the whole ideology though, does your child 'pass' or are people too scared by being labelled bigots, to speak truthfully?? Maybe your child really does pass, I still can't fathom lying to the public who I am asking for help from in looking for them.

Police are putting out calls to look out for 'female' criminals, who are in fact males who have made zero effort to pass as women....but rather than get accurate information out, the validation of a criminal is put first.

People don't like being lied to.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

Outed If you feel this strongly please would you consider starting your own thread.

This thread is about a human rights case being heard in the Court of Appeal today and tomorrow. It is not about we are Fair Cop as an organisation.

#nodebate is a bad and wrong thing to say, until it isn't.

I was suggesting you have a specific debate not no debate. This thread is on a limited topic. You would get a much broader debate on your own thread.

Stop misrepresenting what I said. That is a cheap and transparent tactic that does you no credit.

Do you know what case this thread is about?

@Numicon

. I know how he looks and is perceived by others

This is the worry of the whole ideology though, does your child 'pass' or are people too scared by being labelled bigots, to speak truthfully?? Maybe your child really does pass, I still can't fathom lying to the public who I am asking for help from in looking for them.

Police are putting out calls to look out for 'female' criminals, who are in fact males who have made zero effort to pass as women....but rather than get accurate information out, the validation of a criminal is put first.

People don't like being lied to.

keep doubling down on all this. yes, I am sure that the various shop assistants, waiting staff, next door's builders, little kids etc etc etc that my child has been encountering and interacting with in daily life since before his transition, all of whom have perceived and addressed him as a boy, even when that was not how he identified, are all just trembling at the thought of being cancelled by the woke police, and that's why they call him 'mate' or refer to him as 'your lad' . not because he actually looks like a boy.

keep pushing this narrative that I am a 'liar' and a bad parent though.

This thread is about a court case.

By all means start a thread about Fair Cop outing your safely home child. Had their been doubt about how your D.C. presents and your D.C. was still missing, there may have been some justification for it, but as your D.C. was safely home it was unkind and unnecessary. So start a thread.