Fair Cop Court of Appeal 8-10 March

[Spero]

Please save the date! This is such an important hearing for freedom of speech, particularly around the issues of sex and gender.

The hearing will be for 1 1/2 days some time between 8-10 March, we don't have an exact listing yet.

Hopefully there will be some live tweeting.

Do support if you can.

twitter.com/WeAreFairCop/status/1361820204649639951?s=20

Who called you 'a shit parent and a liar' @outedbyfaircop?

People have sympathised and tried to explain why it's important to them to support this action. Despite what you say about your past feminism you're coming across as vindictive and obsessive.

This is quite interesting. I misheard a comment about Article 8 during the hearing - I thought they College of Police were conceding an Article 8 (privacy) breach but instead they were saying that they agreed that an Article claim was very different to Harry Miller's Article 10 claim.

Which was interesting because the College of Police lawyers are resisting my claim under Article 8 on the basis that it is very similar to Harry's article 10 claim which was rejected by Mr Justice Knowles.

this strongly suggests that they don't really have a clue about the impact of their guidance at all.

Summary here
thecritic.co.uk/fair-cops-case-in-court/

outed, I think you're being really unfair. Nobody has called you a shit parent and a liar. I am sorry about your troubles with your child, I don't know enough about it to comment (and I'm not going digging, as I would imagine you would prefer privacy).

Any idea, spero, when the CoA is likely to make their decision/judgement?

[quote Spero]Summary here
thecritic.co.uk/fair-cops-case-in-court/[/quote]
thank you Spero - that is a great article.

Do you think that the College of Policing thinks that they are genuinely 'doing the right thing' here or have they disappeared down the Stonewall rabbit hole and are operating in an alternative reality to the rest of us?

Did you get a sense that they have really thought this through and challenged themselves or are their processes not that rigorous? I am coming to realise that the people in charge are often far less intelligent and objective in their thinking than I had previously hoped.

Slightly random, but I have received a BBC invitation today to apply for tickets for a recording of a series by Humberside police officer and stand-up comedian Alfie-Moore. Called... It's a Fair Cop.

Have I missed something and did FC name themselves after this series that I hadn't previously heard of, or is this BBC trolling?

The programme has used that name for years. I did think of it when We Are Fair Cop chose their name and just assumed it was a coincidence.

The programme, incidentally, is rather amusing. (Well, at least to me.) He comes across as someone who knows that the police play the game of progressive views but are only really on board with the common sense stuff.

Ah OK - that makes sense nauticant, I'll have to listen out.

Hopefully 'fair cop' is a reasonably common phrase and we aren't going to find ourselves embroiled in copywrite claims....

I have no clue when the judgment will be handed down and the Judges gave no hint. Knowles J took nearly 3 months! Maybe it will be quicker with three of them.

Gardenbird - I think its pure capture. People act almost as if they are hypnotised. they don't have to think or analyse because they are 'on the right side of history' and any challenge is just hateful bigotry. I think its been a masterful psychological dark ops by Stonewall et al, a mixture of carrot -you are righteous and inclusive! - and a stick - get in line OR ELSE.

But hopefully the courts are the big bucket of cold water needed to wake a lot of people up. I will be very frightened if they don't, I am now officially out of ideas about what we can do to reclaim sanity.

The programme, incidentally, is rather amusing.

Completely off topic, but I love It's A Fair Cop. Really funny.

One argument that I have started to use with public bodies that might also work with the police is that the trans’ rights / women’s rights is inherently political. It involves lobby groups, proposed legislative changes etc. These bodies like the police should be apolitical and it may undermine public confidence in their impartiality if they take anything other than a strictly neutral position.

I think it does give public bodies a way of stepping back to official neutrality. I don’t think it is going to magically fix the capture but it is a risk they can’t ignore.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

One argument that I have started to use with public bodies that might also work with the police is that the trans’ rights / women’s rights is inherently political. It involves lobby groups, proposed legislative changes etc. These bodies like the police should be apolitical and it may undermine public confidence in their impartiality if they take anything other than a strictly neutral position.

I think it does give public bodies a way of stepping back to official neutrality. I don’t think it is going to magically fix the capture but it is a risk they can’t ignore.

We have been banging that drum for two years now. Pointing out that it is contrary to the police's own code to get involved in political activities. They seem utterly impervious. That is why it looks like hypnotism to me. There appears to be no independent thought at all. As if they are being controlled by some hive mind...

Definition of it's a fair cop
British, informal
—used to admit that one did something wrong and was caught fairly
I'm annoyed about the speeding ticket, but it's a fair cop.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/it%27s%20a%20fair%20cop#:~:text=British%2C%20informal,but%20it's%20a%20fair%20cop.

Thanks, Spero. I hope it is sooner rather than later.

@Spero
That’s frightening. It does feel very Emperor’s new clothes. Everyone buying into a version of reality that can’t be challenged.

[quote Defaultname]Definition of it's a fair cop
British, informal
—used to admit that one did something wrong and was caught fairly
I'm annoyed about the speeding ticket, but it's a fair cop.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/it%27s%20a%20fair%20cop#:~:text=British%2C%20informal,but%20it's%20a%20fair%20cop.[/quote]
c.f. Bang to rights

@Impatiens

Who called you 'a shit parent and a liar' *@outedbyfaircop*?

People have sympathised and tried to explain why it's important to them to support this action. Despite what you say about your past feminism you're coming across as vindictive and obsessive.

The post is deleted now but someone on here told me i had ‘lied’ about my child and that she ‘didn’t like liars’. No one challenged it, despite it later being deleted as transphobia, which is apparently not tolerated on these boards.

If still being angry about what fair cop did to my family and have refused to take responsibility or apologise for is ‘vindictive’ and ‘obsessive’ well aren’t you sweet. I’m sure you’d be absolutely fine with it. Or is women and children being endangered only worth spending hours of your life ranting about on the internet only ok if it’s the right sort of women and children?

I didn’t take matters any further at the time but now i’m not sure if that was the right decision, given their oopsy oh well we’re just volunteers haha response.

@ArabellaScott

outed, I think you're being really unfair. Nobody has called you a shit parent and a liar. I am sorry about your troubles with your child, I don't know enough about it to comment (and I'm not going digging, as I would imagine you would prefer privacy).

You’re wrong actually, numicon did and has been deleted for it. Is this gaslighting right here?

Why on earth do you think that users to an internet discussion board are responsible for something a third party did? I understand why you are upset but why are you cross with us?

Isn’t someone here a fair cop tweeter?

And let me tell you a story. When it became apparent my child had run away, obviously i was frantic and appealing for information all over my social media, my friends went out and looked in the park, the train station, the bus station. Later that night, a very good friend of mine who is a long standing and much loved mumsnetter started a thread on here appealing for sightings. When she messaged me to tell me, i messaged her back instantly going ‘oh god no, if they twig he’s trans it’ll do more harm than good and i can live without that shit just now’ she went oh shit sorry, I didn’t think, and we both reported the thread and had it pulled. But wouldn’t you know, exactly what i predicted came true? Am i spookily psychic or what? Let that sink in: my child was missing and i pulled the thread appealing for information from the country’s biggest parenting website, because i (correctly) predicted that it would bring down a whole heap of shit none of us had the capacity to deal with. I do not know who contacted Fair Cop with their super special insider info about how my kid looks and behaves, because, despite being a crusader for truth and honesty, they have not had the balls to approach me directly with their concerns. But i feel confident that whoever it is, they’re no stranger to this board.

So you tell me, are you proud of creating this environment, this toxic culture, where this sort of thing not only happens but is encouraged? No one here having a ‘are we the baddies?’ moment?

Outed
What are you hoping to achieve?
You are clearly very angry but it’s not clear why you are posting. The judgement in the case will not appear for months so it’s likely this thread will be dormant soon.

I’m sharing my experience of harm done to my gamily by this twitter account you’re all fangirling over. I saw its name in active. I saw one of its operators posting on it and being fawned over. I thought i would speak about my experience. I (mistakenly) thought that people who care about women and children’s safety would show some concern, i thought the people who did it might apologise or take responsibility for their actions. I thought people who are always demanding that other political movements distance themselves from dangerous extremists might also reflect that their own side of the street could do with sweeping. Haha mad i know.

Do you have a problem with women speaking up about things that have harmed them or made them feel unsafe?

This thread will go dormant yes but google is forever :)

I don't know the details of your case Outed, but I do know that in a democracy, it should never be the case that a private citizen can register a crime against someone else that shows up in record checks without any investigation by the police or court case and without the person knowing anything about it.
That has no place in a civilised or fair society. If you genuinely have been doxxed, I'd hope you have taken it to the police and I'd hope they'd take it seriously.
However, that does nothing to detract from the fact that hate 'incidents' as they are currently recorded are a dream come true for every stalker or person with malicious intent. No one should have a police record without being informed or the chance to defend themselves in court. Ever.
So yes, I hope people do google this, see this thread and investigate for themselves.