50:50 Parliament Campaign to Encourage Women in Politics now have TWO Transwomen on the Panel

[gardenbird48]

I saw 50:50 women tweet to Sue Pascoe Chair of the Conservative Women’s Organisation some time ago on their #askhertostand, but then I couldn’t find the tweet and thought maybe they’d realised their mistake (can you guess?) and deleted it.

However, how wrong I was! There are now two people that have extremely limited ‘lived experience’ as a female (Sue was a married father and successful businessman and Master to Foxhounds until a few years ago). The other person has said hi on here recently.

I don’t mean to be rude but surely the whole point of encouraging women to stand for Parliament is to help overcome the barriers women face in entering politics. Any barriers that trans people face are rather different. It is also interesting that on a panel of three for their ‘Encouraging LGBT+ Women to Stand’ campaign, there us only one person with actual lived experience of being a woman (I am hoping that Mandu Reid of the WEP was born female at least...??)

[StillAWoman2]

Robin isn’t going to ever listen to us, we (the women) are all wasting our time on this thread now

[Winesalot]

We all face different difficulties. We can learn from each other - as I try to every day. To say that I have ‘no idea’ about your particular difficulties suggests that I have spent the last 5 plus decades with my eyes shut and my hands over my ears.

Ahhh got it. It is like it is a consultancy role then. Come in, give your perspective on what we can do better, give us tips from your long experience of dealing with the realities of being female in a sexist society, how to make up for the lack of opportunities we had compared to males from the first day of school.... excellent.

[Winesalot]

@StillAWoman2

Robin isn’t going to ever listen to us, we (the women) are all wasting our time on this thread now

I did think they had a deadline they were complaining was too short. Obviously I was mistaken in who said that.

[TheFleegleHasLanded]

Ah yes, Pascoe who appears to consider WPUK and WeNeed to Talk to be hate groups, who thinks keeping men out of women’s spaces is akin to apartheid, reports Germaine Greer for hate speech, and seems to think they are fit to lecture JK Rowling.
Exactly the sort of person women should have as their representative. Seems lovely.

www.google.co.uk/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=sue+pascoe+hate+group+tweets&hl=en-gb&client=safari&fir=Z4k_laSCJqjbNM%252C4KWMy_JISTnWHM%252C_%253BrVVK2rluDb5SXM%252Cp6oXAz46IyWstM%252C_%253BMcmNy1uLGh78lM%252CbenAqfjbyeedfM%252C_%253BtxYPH8kalzrnKM%252Cp6oXAz46IyWstM%252C_%253BgInz4UuJicGwIM%252Cp6oXAz46IyWstM%252C_%253BW7-Ihkr-s9srHM%252Cgjyfd9f6G_fQRM%252C_%253BGV7SAm10HWe6TM%252CcNFYrIaP7dtCKM%252C_%253B2wTDT7VPYOfM4M%252Ctnnb_CLSkj_caM%252C_%253BK_E5PFzZ3SWSMM%252CQmzzVohnmVuhBM%252C_%253B8Trx8EZezYKKFM%252C4KWMy_JISTnWHM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kQajX0Jx5dWAibxBf81eMRjT9h3FA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjEkKGH_-zuAhXASxUIHUk5CigQ7Al6BAgMEA4&biw=1024&bih=729

[OldCrone]

My view is that we all need to listen to each other to understand how we can make progress together.

I appreciate that isn’t your view.

What makes you think that isn't my view? But this panel isn't the place for women to listen to the perspective of someone born male.

I just don't understand what a male-born person can bring to this panel discussion for women, that makes it appropriate for them to take a place which should go to a woman.

What do you believe makes you a more suitable person than a woman to take part in this event?

[Clymene]

Any transwomen who think they should take a space reserved for a woman is a misogynist. I don't care if it's sport, employment or politics.

Campaign for trans representation. But you don't and cannot represent women.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Completely agree, Clymene.

[RedToothBrush]

So Robin, can you go and explain why it matters that my childhood no longer matters and I'm no longer allowed to talk about it? Can you represent why that matters?

My sibling can just reinvent my life because they were born the right sex to dominate my history (oh the irony). Im not supposed to for the rest of my life either lie about my childhood experiences and pretend that things in my childhood didn't happen just simply because my sibling will get upset at me repeating certain instances because they reference sex. Its gone. My mrmories rewritten. And i cant relate to others who innocently ask me if i have any brothers or sisters because i have a choice of whether to lie or decide to explain things (which isn't something you want to do when simply making polite chitchat especially when it someone you dont know and you dont know how they will react). It affects my ability and opportunity to make and build new relationships. I can't relate to having either a sister (cos i didn't have one) or a brother (because to state that is sacrilegious). Its being damned if you do or don't.

And on top of that i know my sibling never ever went through the sexist bullshit or harassment you do as a teenage girl because they weren't ever one. They were never shaped by those experiences. They had altogether different ones. Yet we are supposed to play along and pretend these childhood experiences which shape us as adults are completely irrelevant and unimportant.

We aren't allowed to talk about this cos it might offend. Our shared experiences as women growing up can not be spoken of and can be dismissed by a single declaration of self identity. Thats power. Thats the ability to subordinate in a simple breathe. To deem our lives as that totally irrelevant and unimportant and to state that 'not all women are like that'. There isnt much more offensive than that tbh.

Fuck anyone who does that. They are deliberately imposing their power over women and lording it over them by making sure they are silenced, belittled or sidelined rather than putting men in their place by 'expanding the bandwidth of maleness'. Nope women make for an easier target because they are conditioned as girls and teenagers to be nice, to not challenge and not to stick up for themselves in the same way as boys. Its always the erasure and rewriting of women so we can not just be, we are told being a female is merely a feeling or an outfit not a lived life.

Identity is not purely individual yet individuals tell women it is and they solely decide.

Sexist people pretending to represent me, do not represent my interests and they don't ever intend to. They set out to represent their own self interests and stamp all over women if it suits them.

Its the very height of narcissism in which women are asked to play the supporting role to indulge the fantasy of others at the price of the value and worth of their own shared lived experience that only other women can ever have.

My old boss used to tell me straight to my face not to get pregnant because he couldn't afford me to. And he kept my wages lower as a result just in case. Amongst the hours of other sexist crap i put up with for years. Im not sure id have had my son if id stayed in that job tbh... When i did get pregnant a couple of years later, id just lost my job so getting another was... well it didn't happen. And it still hasnt.

And it falls to me to look after my son in ways DH doesn't even notice or realise the impact of even now. Even though hes a hands on Dad. Its so taken for granted...

Sex matters. Gender is just window dressing sexism.

[RedToothBrush]

We all face different difficulties. We can learn from each other

No. You can never learn what i feel and experience whilst you simultaneously tell me that you are a woman.

Not when it erases important life experiences and my history in doing so.

Not when it means that the sexism i faced is replaced by the domination by another male experience and say so.

I say no this isnt ok and you merely say that your feelings are more important.

Your lack of empathy is why you can never ever represent anyone but you and those in your position.

But not women. Not when certain things so fundamental to women have to be displaced and dismissed merely for you to maintain your identity over us.

[gardenbird48]

@TheBuffster

YY *@OldCrone*

*@gardenbird48* so do you think voting conservative would be better than voting for a GC labour candidate like Rosie Duffield?

I'm not going to offer that sort of opinion, I applaud Rosie Duffield for her GC stance and obvious fortitude in the face of horrendous abuse but I know nothing else about her.

The Conservatives appear to have more openly GC MPs, have promised to not allow self-id (and we will be holding them to that) and the whole senior leadership team haven't signed the TWAW declaration and vowed to expel dissenters. If I was ever to consider voting Labour, that wouldn't have helped.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1361256051723689987?s=21

A cautionary tale for all women, especially the enablers.

[LoungeLizardLhama]

“My view is that we all need to listen to each other to understand how we can make progress together.

I appreciate that isn’t your view.“

But Robyn, it is our view that we should all listen to each other and you’re not listening to women are you. You have no more idea what it is to ge a women than I have what it is to be a trans woman.
Can you honestly imagine an actual born woman seeking and being accepted to represent trans women in an lgbt organisation? Of course not, it would never happen because it’s absurd. And you thinking you can represent natal women is equally absurd.

[StillAWoman2]

@Ereshkigalangcleg

https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1361256051723689987?s=21

A cautionary tale for all women, especially the enablers.

Wow allowing yourself to be subjugated by the patriarchy doesn’t give you any protection either

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Wow allowing yourself to be subjugated by the patriarchy doesn’t give you any protection either.

No.

[Floisme]

Has no-one posted this yet?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theonion.com/man-finally-put-in-charge-of-struggling-feminist-moveme-1819569515/amp

[NellieEllie]

“We all face different difficulties. We can learn from each other”.

I absolutely agree. Listening to people who have different experiences IS interesting and a useful exercise.
However, the point here, the emphasis, is not to listen to just “different experiences”, but for WOMEN to speak and be listened to.

I think that unless you have lived as a girl and a woman, you have no real grasp of what it is like. What it is like as a 12 year old to walk down a street and feel shame, vulnerability, and fear because a group of men are watching you and catcalling. What it is to hate your body because of how sexualised and trivialised women are by men. How wonderful it is to discover feminism, and realise you can actually fight all that with other women. How you learn to routinely police yourself with men you dislike who want to sleep with you, not too friendly, but not too aggressive so they get mad, how to always walk home late at night with a friend, or if not, to carry your keys, cross the road when someone approaches. All the other stuff that some women have to go through, and choose to go through - abortion, pregnancy, or miscarriage, endometriosis and periods so heavy in menopause you dare not go out... Trying to do well in a career despite the sexism, or just getting on in your job without hassle.

And this is just scraping the surface. Of course everyone has difficulties in their lives, but THESE specific difficulties are women’s, and that is why sometimes we need to hear the voices of women. It’s not about attacking you, or undermining you, or devaluing your experience. I suppose the thing is, for this particular thing, it’s just not about you.

[unwashedanddazed]

Why do males find it impossible to hear women saying NO?

[Winesalot]

Maybe our consultant can tell us that? They said they have decades of experience to relay?

[TinselAngel]

I hope that you have not had to tread some of the difficult paths or visit some of the (personal) dark places that I have had to.

[TheShadowyFeminist]

"Why do males find it impossible to hear women saying NO?"

It's a real head scratcher that one.

[Enough4me]

In trying to stomp on women what the TW wants is actually being worn down. A women's life can only be known by women. A TW life can only be known by a TW.

There is no magical way to inject a second set of X chromosomes to displace Y chromosomes, then time-travel machine to go back and live those first experiences. No way to magically live that first moment as a girl that you find out across the world you are second class. No way to understand the first moment you are expected to be pretty, be quiet, be ladylike then realise society expects it.

I can't imagine what it's like to be a TW, e.g. the first time wanting a vagina and not a penis in unknown to me. I know and like my body and no concerns on surgery. Therefore, I would never presume the right to speak for them as they should speak for them and their struggles as a separate group. Women can speak for me.

[RedToothBrush]

Its never about identity. Its always about power.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Definitely RedToothBrush