Q&A thread for New Posters

[CharlieParley]

Welcome to the FWR board and welcome to the debate. If you're new here and have been told your questions might be better on their own thread, but you're not comfortable starting your own, then please feel free to ask your question here.

I'll try my best to answer and some of our other regulars might pop in too.

Fwiw, it's entirely possible that a female on testosterone will 'pass' more convincingly that the opposite situation, because testosterone is incredibly powerful. That's entirely why males rarely pass at all if they have been through puberty, because of how profoundly testosterone affects the body.

I know a TM whom I clocked straight away, because of the croaky teen boy voice, and the first double take was only confirmed when I registered their body shape, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if many of the people this TM meets don't look beyond the scruffy beard and masculine styling.

But so what? I get called 'sir' or 'mate' any number of times in a week because I'm quite masculine in personal style, as our culture defines it. It's a bit of a running joke. I've been challenged in women's toilets. I was told off by an irate old lady once as an androgynous young teen for being in the ladies, and was far too shy to say I was a female and ended up scarpering. On the few occasions it's happened as an adult, the challenger has usually apologised, on a closer look, or when I've spoken, and I'm always very clear that I don't mind being challenged at all, because I understand how important it is for women to have the confidence to speak up if they are concerned about something.

But toilets, while important, are the very least important of all the places where single sex provision matters, and I really would like to know why so many people seem to think they are the be all and end all.

@TheBuffster

I enjoyed the play. I'm unsure as to why the message changed? What was the driving force. Does anyone know?

I'm not being a sealion. I'm GC. I just can't work out how it happened in plain sight and everyone was like, yeah that's cool, nothing to see here.

Is there any evidence for example that other groups have piggybacked for their own aims. Mra for a start.

Because I think most people who think twaw have a very different idea of what that means to both tea and GC people. It's this misunderstanding that will forever brand us bigots.

I think there's an assumption in the general population (who are more than likely to be drawn to the "be kind" way of thinking) that a transwoman is someone who's had surgery and no longer has a penis. They will also have a preconceived image of an effeminate male. Both these images/ideas make the concept of a transwoman fairly "safe" in terms of using female spaces. I don't know when things changed but the average (not immersed in this stuff) person probably doesn't realise how broad the umbrella of trans is, and that a male, solely based on his say-so can claim to be a woman. There was a survey done where people were asked about TW using women's spaces (change rooms I think) and there was a huge change in opinion when asked if the TW had an intact penis. These average people would think you were joking if you told them about trans lesbians. But that's where we are.

[quote CranberriesChoccyAgain]Try watching this. You can see the cognitive dissonance in action. 😁

m.youtube.com/watch?v=xfO1veFs6Ho[/quote]
I find that a very depressing thing to watch. Presumably those are students who are quite happy to deny any kind of reality, even when it is stood in front of them. What is going on here, why are young people prepared to accept any kind of nonsense for fear of offending anyone? Has critical thinking left the building?

The students so determined not to say no you are not a 7 year old child

A full grown man standing in front of them 🤦‍♀️

Try changing sea lion to say, Black people, Jewish people or Trans people or even "Gender critical feminists"

Alternatively, try changing sea lion to say, MRAs, or lefty woke bros, or liberal feminists, or even "Trans Rights Activists".

The sea lion is interrupting others' conversations to try to impose his wish to derail the conversation. He refuses to observe or respect the boundaries of others.

@littlbrowndog

The students so determined not to say no you are not a 7 year old child

A full grown man standing in front of them 🤦‍♀️

The dissonance runs very deep for those heavily invested in the ideology of you are what you say you are. To deny one claim sends their house of cards tumbling down.

When I first became aware of these issues I frequently saw claims that transwomen suffer serious violence in the UK. I still keep seeing it claimed that transpeople, especially transwomen, are the most marginalised and oppressed group, even more than women, black people, people with disabilities and homosexual people.

Is this true?

^^ They have a very broad definition of violence though. Not agreeing with TWAW or misgendering are considered violence, for example.

I have seen claims that transwomen are no greater risk to natal women than natal women are to each other, including in prisons. Is this true?

I see claims that straight women's willingness to have lesbians share spaces with them shows that objection to transwomen being present is bigotry not real fear. Apparently it shows that the problem is not over fear of sexually predatory behaviour because of course lesbians would present the same danger to women. What do you think of that argument?

@MaudTheInvincible

Try changing sea lion to say, Black people, Jewish people or Trans people or even "Gender critical feminists"

Alternatively, try changing sea lion to say, MRAs, or lefty woke bros, or liberal feminists, or even "Trans Rights Activists".

The sea lion is interrupting others' conversations to try to impose his wish to derail the conversation. He refuses to observe or respect the boundaries of others.

Your comment doesn't change the fact that the sea lion is simply a member of a group which is a different group from the person who can't stand all members of the sea lion's group.

The whole premise is flawed. There's nothing unreasonable in the sea lion asking why the female character can't stand his group en masse.

The examples of radical feminists, TRAs, etc aren't exactly analagous (despite one being my own example) as being a member of those groups is a choice. Black or Jewish or even women is a better example as they no more choose their group than the sea- lion did.

Do you think any of those groups would be interrupting others' conversations to try to impose his wish to derail the conversation. He refuses to observe or respect the boundaries of others if they challenged a blanket, irrational statement being made about them?

I honestly can't stop laughing at the hypocrisy of FWR posters accusing other people of sealioning

Trans rights is talked about as if it is one thing. Are there any significant differences between MTF and FTM trans people? Do they have the same needs for new or changed rights?

@MildlyIrritatedOfChorley

I have seen claims that transwomen are no greater risk to natal women than natal women are to each other, including in prisons. Is this true?

No. There's no evidence for this. Denmark have recently decided to reinstate women-only prisons because of the detrimental affect on the female prisoners

Are transpeople at greater risk of suicide than people who do not identify as trans? What about for teenagers?

@MildlyIrritatedOfChorley

I see claims that straight women's willingness to have lesbians share spaces with them shows that objection to transwomen being present is bigotry not real fear. Apparently it shows that the problem is not over fear of sexually predatory behaviour because of course lesbians would present the same danger to women. What do you think of that argument?

Well ~98% of sexual offences are committed by males.

@MildlyIrritatedOfChorley

I have seen claims that transwomen are no greater risk to natal women than natal women are to each other, including in prisons. Is this true?

I have seen data that suggests trans women maintain a more male pattern of violent criminal behaviour, especially towards women, so I'd guess not true. Even if it is reasonably rare and a minority of overall trans people.

@littlbrowndog

The students so determined not to say no you are not a 7 year old child

A full grown man standing in front of them 🤦‍♀️

It really is quite incredible. You can see from their faces and body language, as well as the changes in their actual language (eg 'I feel there are cultures that would accept you' rather than 'Good for you') that they don't really believe it but they know that if they admit to that they will struggle to justify their first answer. The question is, why would they rather go along with something so clearly false rather than question their first response? Yet another thing I don't believe I will ever understand!

@MildlyIrritatedOfChorley

I see claims that straight women's willingness to have lesbians share spaces with them shows that objection to transwomen being present is bigotry not real fear. Apparently it shows that the problem is not over fear of sexually predatory behaviour because of course lesbians would present the same danger to women. What do you think of that argument?

As a female, I've been subject to unwanted lesbian attention in my life exactly once and that was nothing more than pressing up a bit close after a few drinks.

I've been subject to unwanted male attention more times than I can remember, from being stared at to having a stranger butt into conversations to being grabbed for a snog against my will to being groped to being followed and shouted at to being flashed and masturbated at. Thankfully never raped.

Now, maybe I'm just really unattractive to lesbians, but I think the difference is because males are socialised to think it's ok, reasonable and even unavoidable for them to impose their interest on females.

The issue isn't whether a person in our space might be sexually interested in us, it's whether they feel entitled to ignore our boundaries and act on that interest.

It's a very male thing to assume a lesbian is going to act like a man just because they both fancy women.

@MildlyIrritatedOfChorley

I see claims that straight women's willingness to have lesbians share spaces with them shows that objection to transwomen being present is bigotry not real fear. Apparently it shows that the problem is not over fear of sexually predatory behaviour because of course lesbians would present the same danger to women. What do you think of that argument?

I would say women aren't as prone to sexually predatory behaviour as biological males (being lesbian has nothing to do with it). Plus they don't have penises with which to rape people. I'm sure most trans people have no desire to rape anyone, but if you allow anyone to identify as a woman and then allow them into women's spaces then what is there to stop men doing so purely to prey on women? Even if they aren't, women may feel safer in a space without male bodies in it and that should be our right.

@MildlyIrritatedOfChorley

Trans rights is talked about as if it is one thing. Are there any significant differences between MTF and FTM trans people? Do they have the same needs for new or changed rights?

My instinct would be that FtM are trying to identify OUT of an oppressed group whereas MtF are attempting to identify into one. All oppressed groups have legal and hard-won legal protections and can’t be identified in OR out of... and you can’t change sex, so: •everyone has human rights. •FtM retain women’s rights. •All people with GRC have specific rights associated with gender reassignment which do not necessarily supersede sex based rights

despite one being my own example

Are you suggesting that liberal feminists and radical feminists are the same, or what?

I often see talk of "lifesaving trans healthcare" being banned or restricted.

What is the healthcare? How does it save lives?

Why would healthcare be refused to people presenting to the doctor saying they feel they are trans? What treatments are offered? What is the person's problem with being trans that requires medical intervention?

@MildlyIrritatedOfChorley

Are transpeople at greater risk of suicide than people who do not identify as trans? What about for teenagers?

I'd say teenagers probably are but because they are likely to have other mental health issues contributing to both thinking they are trans (because there's no way they all are, with how fast the rise has been in teen girls in particular) and being suicidal. That's probably not okay to say though because you aren't allowed to think it's a mental health problem... However my sister has had several mental health illness diagnosed before deciding that being trans is her real issue and it will all be fixed once she's a man. So I'm very biased.

@Winesalot

Sea lioning as per wiki

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity.[1][2][3][4] It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate".

I finally understand what sea-lioning is from this definition. The cartoon, which I've seen before as an explanation, doesn't make sense to me at all, and seems to be about something completely different.

Interestingly, this definition fits a certain poster on here so well it could have been written with them in mind. I no longer provide this poster with any evidence or explanations, and if I reply to them at all, just ask them questions or make a very short comment.