Breastfeeding is now chestfeeding, Brighton’s trans-friendly midwives are told

[Mulletsaremisunderstood]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/breastfeeding-is-now-chestfeeding-brightons-trans-friendly-midwives-are-told-pwlvmcnc7

Hope this link works as I am a subscriber to the times and logged in.

More nonsense being peddled as 'progressive' . When will the madness end!!?

@prisencolinensinainciusol2

Are they going to start calling breast cancer chest cancer?

Seriously, why wouldn't they?

Men get it, so..

This!

They want to erase women from breastfeeding but we can keep cancer.

Can we rename prostate cancer now too? It's not inclusive as a cancer

Even using requested terms with a patient individually is confusing though. A midwife talking about chest feeding because that’s what’s been requested would surely then also describe mastitis as a “chest infection”, with a symptom being “chest pain”. But those terms mean very different things to mastitis.

@SweetMeadow

The comment about that hospital not using the word ‘Mother’ is just so upsetting. It undermines and diminishes the significant change women go through when they become a mother. Like the change during puberty to becoming an adolescent, women change physically and mentally once they become a mother (this change is called matrescence) - it has a term but it’s not so well known).

I personally found this change massive, traumatic, difficult, heartbreaking and then wonderful but it’s a process that a women goes through as they leave their pre baby life behind and become a mother, also known as the birth of the mother. Is this really being taken away from us or in fact, worse, not acknowledged by some now? What a dreadful step backwards and I worry about maternal mental health. Knowing this was a process that new mothers went through was what helped me come to peace with the way I was feeling and my new identity after birth but I think I’d feel so alone if that was taken away from me.

This! So much this!

As I mentioned on the deleted thread- the words which have deep significance and meaning for the vast majority should be standard: woman, mother, breastfeeding, maternity and midwife.

For the tiny minority for whom those terms are offensive or upsetting there should be specific resources leaflets and webpages and training for staff just as there always has been on special circumstances, health conditions and cultural/religious awareness.

We also usually expect some quality data before implementing such sweeping changes. Where is it? Who needs these changes, how many are there of them accessing maternity services, how do they actually feel, what are their expectations and importantly what is the impact on the majority of women?

@Meredithgrey1

Even using requested terms with a patient individually is confusing though. A midwife talking about chest feeding because that’s what’s been requested would surely then also describe mastitis as a “chest infection”, with a symptom being “chest pain”. But those terms mean very different things to mastitis.

This, 100%. Chest pain is very different to pain in your breasts. Medical language needs to be specific.

Get writing! Tell this Trust that they’re insulting and demeaning women. Copy your letters to your MP, the Health Secretary, and your local Press. Only women can become pregnant. Only women can give birth. Women who choose to identify as male, by becoming pregnant are rather obviously proving they’re not. An avalanche of letters is needed here. Doesn’t help that the local MP is Caroline Lucas of the Green Party that doesn’t support Women’s Sex-based Rights, #EA2010. Their claims to supporting women are completely undermined by them accepting Self-identifying males as women.

There is so much wrong with maternity care and the language used in maternity care as it is- you only have to see threads on here where a woman has been ‘told’ she’s ‘not allowed’ to go past 38 weeks and will be getting induced (no other options discussed) or a woman pondering whether it was ok she consented to a vaginal exam only for the HCP to casually remark they ‘also did a sweep’ whilst they were there. I think many of us can look back at experiences in pregnancy and labour where facts and options weren’t explained properly, language was used that made it sound like we didn’t have choices, patronising language was used that made us feel inferior and situations (often violating and distressing) that happened without our consent. Where is the drive to change this language and attitude? It seems like nobody cares yet now there’s all this movement to improve things with gender-inclusive language, do these same people also care with the rest of the issues so passionately?

@Meredithgrey1

Even using requested terms with a patient individually is confusing though. A midwife talking about chest feeding because that’s what’s been requested would surely then also describe mastitis as a “chest infection”, with a symptom being “chest pain”. But those terms mean very different things to mastitis.

Indeed. I would imagine "chest pain" symptoms would get a possible referral to a cardiac specialist. Is that really the best outcome for someone who could have breast cancer?

The erasure and wokeness for its own sake needs to stop. It isn't helping anyone and it puts women at risk.

I would not agree to have my babies at a hospital that refuses to use the word mother. If they can't be trusted to use basic vocabulary to describe the process there's no way I'd trust them with the health of myself or my babies

@DaisiesandButtercups and @SweetMeadow I agree with what you say regarding the word Mother. The word Mother is also essential to kids. It denotes the start of life, birth into the world, primary care, ongoing nurturing, the place you turn for support and guideance, the easing of the baby to toddler, child, teen and adult.

I know that people will say not every kid has a mum. Also that for many this is a complex relationship. For the majority however, it is one of the most important relationships of our lives. It is also universal, beyond race or class or belief.

For those kids for whom the relationship is difficult or not present, still the word Mother becomes a role that someone else can take to assume the same importance in a child's life. But when this happens the child still has a beginning, a mother, the woman who carried and birthed that child.

Any move to reduce the power of the word mother, mummy, mum, mom, mam, mama, ma, madre, etc etc is deeply misogynistic and very very concerning. If you don't buy into womanhood fair enough. But do not inflict that on the next generation. You have no right to do that. It is playing biology via big pharma and it is not right.

I've been posting here a while now, usually in a measured and calm and analytic fashion. This post today has filled me with rage. Motherhood is fucking primal..... do not take its language away.

The BTL comments on the times article were pretty consistent (which is quite heartening when you start to wonder whether you’ve gone mad or if it is the world that is losing the plot...)

I’m curious about the actual number of transmen who do give birth in the UK. I would have assumed that one impact of gender dysphoria would be a revulsion of the idea of being pregnant/breastfeeding, etc, so the number of transmen willing to do something which is so against their desire to live as a man, would be quite limited. Also, for those on hormone medication, the likelihood of pregnancy would be lower. I’m afraid I don’t know any transmen in person, so these are just my best guesses - I would welcome some education on these points from those with direct experience or data.

It's for trans men, not trans women. It's not replacing any language, it's in addition to, all you would have to say is 'i am a woman and please say breastfeeding' and they'll do it. It's breast/chest feeding.

Being discussed on JV ((channel 5) in a minute.

@AfternoonToffee

I have read some of the comments on the FB Times article. I could cry. Women are happily throwing others under a bus just to appease a tiny minority.

Me too just read the front page and tears are welling up.

@Marley20

I would not agree to have my babies at a hospital that refuses to use the word mother. If they can't be trusted to use basic vocabulary to describe the process there's no way I'd trust them with the health of myself or my babies

Absolutely 👍 So glad that I don't live in woke-tastic Brighton.

I posted on the smaller of the Aibu threads and just came back for a catch up to find it deleted . It's not a niche feminism issue when it's the third article on the Times app. Women are angry.

all you would have to say is 'i am a woman and please say breastfeeding'

Why should we have to? Transmen make up a tiny % of those who give birth, why should it be default that everyone has to state whether they would like terms steeped in biological reality used, when the logical way is for transmen to say at the booking in app, please refer to me as x?

I would have assumed that one impact of gender dysphoria would be a revulsion of the idea of being pregnant/breastfeeding, etc, so the number of transmen willing to do something which is so against their desire to live as a man, would be quite limited

You are making the mistake of applying logic.

@LordOfTheOnionRings

It's for trans men, not trans women. It's not replacing any language, it's in addition to, all you would have to say is 'i am a woman and please say breastfeeding' and they'll do it. It's breast/chest feeding.

All to appease a tiny minority? Why?!

@picklecustard

There is so much wrong with maternity care and the language used in maternity care as it is- you only have to see threads on here where a woman has been ‘told’ she’s ‘not allowed’ to go past 38 weeks and will be getting induced (no other options discussed) or a woman pondering whether it was ok she consented to a vaginal exam only for the HCP to casually remark they ‘also did a sweep’ whilst they were there. I think many of us can look back at experiences in pregnancy and labour where facts and options weren’t explained properly, language was used that made it sound like we didn’t have choices, patronising language was used that made us feel inferior and situations (often violating and distressing) that happened without our consent. Where is the drive to change this language and attitude? It seems like nobody cares yet now there’s all this movement to improve things with gender-inclusive language, do these same people also care with the rest of the issues so passionately?

This so much.

Its a few years since my last pregnancy, but from the experience of friends and family members not much has changed.

They need to get the basics right first. Less misogyny, more compassion.

Fucking chest feeding

It’s not chest feeding for ffs

Stop erasing us women

So rude and demeaning

Anyone else finding that the comments won't load on the Times article?

As a pp has put-men & women both have chests & breasts!

Instead of changing everything-can't communications/literature just be tailored to people who want non standard terms using?

So shocked by this.

I just can't get my head round why "menstruators" is acceptable for people who menstruate but "breastfeeders" isn't acceptable for people feeding from their breasts. If a woman can have a penis, surely men can have breasts?

It's nonsense, if you are that triggered my female words/pronouns, how can you cope getting pregnant, pregnancy and birth

Indeed! Such psychological fragility would surely lead to psychological trauma.