My Name Is Anna. I've been called a terf - is the BBC starting to permit open discussion?

[nauticant]

On at 11 this morning (Monday) on Radio 4:

My Name Is Anna. I've been called a terf

My Name Is...Anna is branded a terf – a byword for transphobia. She rejects the label and goes in search of solutions to some of the thorny issues around trans inclusion.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000s1rr

Yes, that's the valuable thing the programme provided, to believe the ideology you have to put critical thinking to one side and even then it's just word soup that hurts the brain the moment you stop accepting it as gospel.

Anna is wonderful!

That couple were annoying weren’t they?

I think the positive thing was that the BBC allowed the programme at all.

Such is the state of things that it's progress of a sort.

I think the average person would have been lost right at the beginning, and not made it to the illogical couple. Maybe it's because I'm originally a scientist not a social scientist, but I felt it needed clear definitions at the start.

Re the BBC, I notice they don't have nearly so many trans stories on the front page now.

Jamie basically claiming it's probably not transphobic to have questions, you just mustn't ask them out loud and you must arrive at the correct answer....

But I don't want a sop, some crumbs.

I want the BBC to let women say "We are women, you aren't!" and to cheer them on whilst doing so!

I want a woman doing a programme like this, without puctures, where tone of voice is a lot of the job, not to sound apologetic, appeasing.

It's 2021 FFS!.

@nauticant

This explanation of why "people who can get pregnant" is the best way to go shows up the nonsense nicely.

😂😂. I want to laugh, but the time and energy these people take up...

Didn't Michfest get permanently shut down? How kind.

Unfortunately it won't be a U-turn, it'll be the turning of a supertanker.

More gaslighting from the BBC as far as I'm concerned.

And you must believe that TWAW and TMAM. Started well but deteriorated. Could have done with more GC feminists. And prof should have been challenged on why he is using women’s facilities.

Hmmm ... (transman) Jamie can wear dresses/lipstick and still be a man. But a (born) man doing the same is a woman. (My brain is inside out at the moment, so I don´t know if I´ve explained that well).

It's not transphobic to think your own confused thoughts, quietly, privately...

It is absolutely transphobic to say anything out loud except TWAW/TMAM. At that point all your confusion and thinking must stop.

So many confused questions arose during that couple's conversation (privately, in my head so I'm still not a T£&%, phew) but it was clear from their double gunned approach that asking them would never be OK.

I think the average person would have been lost right at the beginning, and not made it to the illogical couple. Maybe it's because I'm originally a scientist not a social scientist, but I felt it needed clear definitions at the start

Very much agree. I think most people think there's more to it and that they've missed some fundamental part of the argument. It needs to be spelled out every time. What is a woman?

Anna was great, but too polite to the annoying couple; I would have liked to have seen a 'wait a minute - can you clarify what exactly you think DOES make you a woman?' to that batshit statement about make up and heels.

I would've loved a no-holds-barred interview with Jane Garvey or Jenni Murray with part-time TW Philip Bunce, to talk about his nomination for Businesswoman of the Year.

And perhaps talk to the idiot who nominated him, too.

Link for those who missed it
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000s1rr

I thought it was very good for a mid morning radio 4 programme. I agree listeners with no background in this might be a bit lost about exactly what women called terf say, versus what Lib fems /trans theorists say. But Claire put her understanding of gender as a social/cultural reaction to sex. And the lady talking abt mich fest was clear about the need (&therefore right) for things just for female ppl.

I actually thought Sophie made some good points. Jamie & his partner were fixed in their thinking. Stating their opinions on gender expression & gender identity, saying that gender roles come under gender expression, but completely missing the much bigger societal structural aspects of the imposition of gender roles & stereotypes. Seeing it as personal individual expression but missing the basic reasons that feminists talk about gender.

saying that gender roles come under gender expression, but completely missing the much bigger societal structural aspects of the imposition of gender roles & stereotypes

To my mind that's the influence of social media and holding how you are perceived by others, particularly in photos, as being of great significance.

Did I hear it right? Jamie was implying that the people making really vile and abusive remarks towards JKR shouldn’t be ‘villainised’?

These days, saying you're a woman is tantamount to a proclamation that you're a four-letter word beginning with 't'.

It's bloody exhausting and the BBC are completely lily-livered when it comes to this issue. The noticeable absence of Jenni Murray and Jane Garvey from their list of esteemed journalists speaks far more loudly than their weak concessions to being a properly balanced broadcaster. They seem to have started this discussion merely so they can shut it down and prove that the 'right' side of history was right all along.

Not good enough.

My name is Laura. For not being on the 'gender critical' side of this debate I regularly get called a handmaiden.

Do you get sent rape and death threats, do you get closed down when you have points to make, or told to educate yourself? If you meet like-minded people, do others try to close down your meetings? Do you fear talking out at work in case you get cancelled?

Exactly the same innit.

Honest question is the other way round penis Havers, sperminators, scrotom wavers and prostrate people? Are they mxn? I see so much about the female side what about men?