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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

That inviting armed men into women’s spaces to ‘defend’ us is a batshit idea

132 replies

RealityNotEssentialism · 29/01/2021 22:16

The TRAs are jubilant because a person who is neither GC nor a feminist yet is constantly associated with these things has put up a lovely little video (since deleted) where she implores men who carry guns to start using women’s toilets to protect women from transwomen. I don’t even know where to start.

I know I will be shouted down because this person can do nothing wrong in so many peoples eyes, no matter what horrible stuff she comes out with. But this stuff basically pisses on all the hard work done to try to convince politicians and policy makers that this is a legitimate and important cause that is not based on hatred or violence.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 31/01/2021 14:22

If she’s suggesting a “Man Friday” type stunt - and I don’t know that she is - then she’s saying it’s ok for some men to be in our spaces. The ones doing the ManFriday-ing.

Yes I agree and that's why I have never personally agreed with this strategy. But I can see why people think that sunlight for the general public and creating a headache for policymakers is more important.

DaisiesandButtercups · 31/01/2021 14:27

@PotholeParadies

I've been on mumsnet a long time now.

I never agreed with Posie on everything when she was on MN. That was normal; you robustly disagreed with a poster on one thread, and agreed with them on another. I don't expect there is a single poster on MN with whom I couldn't argue. Wink

So why is it that now PP has a livestream channel, I (and other MNers) am expected to agree with her on 100% of what she says? Why am we being asked to officially distance ourselves every time the month has an R in it?

What do trans activists do to distance themselves from rapists? What do trans activists do to distance themselves from trans inclusive campaigns that explicitly dehumanise women by referring to us as "people who bleed"?

The internet is full of images of people posing with weapons with captions referencing t**fs. I've seen transwomen posting selfies of themselves holding a sword in the women's toilets. There's something to distance yourself from!

Double standards, here.

This.
RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 31/01/2021 14:29

@PotholeParadies

I've been on mumsnet a long time now.

I never agreed with Posie on everything when she was on MN. That was normal; you robustly disagreed with a poster on one thread, and agreed with them on another. I don't expect there is a single poster on MN with whom I couldn't argue. Wink

So why is it that now PP has a livestream channel, I (and other MNers) am expected to agree with her on 100% of what she says? Why am we being asked to officially distance ourselves every time the month has an R in it?

What do trans activists do to distance themselves from rapists? What do trans activists do to distance themselves from trans inclusive campaigns that explicitly dehumanise women by referring to us as "people who bleed"?

The internet is full of images of people posing with weapons with captions referencing t**fs. I've seen transwomen posting selfies of themselves holding a sword in the women's toilets. There's something to distance yourself from!

Double standards, here.

And again
GrainneMhaol · 31/01/2021 14:43

Just because TRA's have double standards doesn't mean we should, or that we shouldn't adopt higher standards than them.

MadBadDaddy · 31/01/2021 14:58

@PotholeParadies

I've been on mumsnet a long time now.

I never agreed with Posie on everything when she was on MN. That was normal; you robustly disagreed with a poster on one thread, and agreed with them on another. I don't expect there is a single poster on MN with whom I couldn't argue. Wink

So why is it that now PP has a livestream channel, I (and other MNers) am expected to agree with her on 100% of what she says? Why am we being asked to officially distance ourselves every time the month has an R in it?

What do trans activists do to distance themselves from rapists? What do trans activists do to distance themselves from trans inclusive campaigns that explicitly dehumanise women by referring to us as "people who bleed"?

The internet is full of images of people posing with weapons with captions referencing t**fs. I've seen transwomen posting selfies of themselves holding a sword in the women's toilets. There's something to distance yourself from!

Double standards, here.

You could build a haystack out of all this straw.

"TRAs" (aka "transgender people") are not "jubilant", we are horrified by this video. This isn't some anonymous idiot on twitter talking about carrying a knife into toilets to protect themselves from trans people (see image), or some nobody macing a model in a bathroom (www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6434819/Gender-fluid-model-Rain-Dove-maced-tracked-attacker-Instagram-abuse.html), or some over-zealous security guard dragging yet another butch lesbian out of the ladies (too many to post) - this is a high profile icon of anti-trans rhetoric and you need to know that NOBODY sees a significant distinction between Mumsnet's reputation and hers, and up until now, that has suited you just fine.

What do trans people do to distance themselves from rapists? The same thing as Muslims do to distance themselves from suicide bombers - NOTHING - if you think differently that is bigotry and is your problem, not theirs.

No-one employs inclusive language in campaigns to 'explicitly dehumanise women' - that is a self-victimising interpretation. The intention is to humanise and include (clue is in the name!) trans men and non-binary ppl who do suffer stigmatisation for needing sex-based healthcare, not least by gender critical voices (eg. "why would a trans man every want to have a baby?") but also by the intense self-conciousness of being a guy in a waiting room full of women and also by ignorant medical staff simply refusing to believe that their needs are genuine.

SmileEachDay · 31/01/2021 15:04

What do trans people do to distance themselves from rapists? The same thing as Muslims do to distance themselves from suicide bombers - NOTHING

I disagree. Many trans people do actively distance themselves from the violent idiot TRAs, and from people who identify as trans in order to gain access to women/children. Just the same, many, many Muslim people actively distance themselves from violent idiot fundamentalists.

Shedbuilder · 31/01/2021 15:09

No-one employs inclusive language in campaigns to 'explicitly dehumanise women' - that is a self-victimising interpretation.

Ah, women victimising themselves. Same old, same old.

I wish I had time to pick this apart but I have a deadline for 9am tomorrow and I'm up to my eyes in work.

Deltoids1 · 31/01/2021 15:10

No-one employs inclusive language in campaigns to 'explicitly dehumanise women' - that is a self-victimising interpretation. The intention is to humanise and include (clue is in the name!) trans men and non-binary ppl

But that is entirely what is happening. Trans men and NB are allowed to dictate what words we use to describe them/us but women aren’t? There’s such double standards throughout gender ideology, I’m not surprised PP is now being held up to the same double standards.

Childrenofthestones · 31/01/2021 15:15

I can see YT jumping on this for hate speech and closing her channel.😟

Floisme · 31/01/2021 15:28

I really don't care what gender ideologues or the lefty brotherhood think, and includes not caring about their double standards. My concern is: do I think Posie has made a mistake?

Having read the transcript (in full as far as I know) I think she has. I also imagine she thinks so too, which is why she's taken it down. I don't think it's just a case of expressing a different opinion, I think it's a shite idea - for the reasons already outlined on this thread - and also clumsily worded.

We all talk shite sometimes but when you do so and put it in the public domain, I think it's sensible to say so. I don't see acknowledging your mistakes as a weakness, I see it as a sign of confidence.

PotholeParadies · 31/01/2021 15:34

No-one employs inclusive language in campaigns to 'explicitly dehumanise women' - that is a self-victimising interpretation.

Re-read what I said.

What do trans activists do to distance themselves fromtrans inclusivecampaigns that explicitly dehumanise women by referring to us as "people who bleed"?

The words that and to have different meanings and substituting one for the other changes the sentence.

OldCrone · 31/01/2021 16:35

"TRAs" (aka "transgender people")

TRAs are transactivists. Not all transgender people are transactivists and not all TRAs are transgender.

The intention is to humanise and include (clue is in the name!) trans men and non-binary ppl who do suffer stigmatisation for needing sex-based healthcare

Sex-based healthcare? So you agree that sex matters. Don't you think it would be healthier for these female people to admit that they are female and need the same healthcare as other female people? They'd do better to come to terms with the fact that they are women and that they will always be women and there's nothing wrong with being a woman.

exLtEveDallas · 31/01/2021 16:38

some over-zealous security guard dragging yet another butch lesbian out of the ladies (too many to post)

@MadBadDaddy - post just one. Women know what women look like, even butch ones.

exLtEveDallas · 31/01/2021 16:40

who do suffer stigmatisation for needing sex-based healthcare

So why do TRAs push for the use of gender based language, rather than sex? You can call yourself whatever you want, but your sex never changes. Therefore medical needs should be sex based and named as such.

HettieMillia · 31/01/2021 16:48

some over-zealous security guard dragging yet another butch lesbian out of the ladies (too many to post)

Just post a couple then. Obviously if this is happening so often it's important that people are aware of it.

HettieMillia · 31/01/2021 16:58

There's more if you want.

intriguing. With the possible exception of one, all those people do not look like men in the slightest. I would be very surprised if other people interpreted them as men 🤔 I do question people's account of things when trying to push an agenda.

What others do you have.

Datun · 31/01/2021 17:06

The hypocrisy is breathtaking when advocates for underpinning and concreting visual gender stereotypes, across the board, try to undermine women's arguments, by claiming it works!

MadBadDaddy · 31/01/2021 17:14

@HettieMillia *I do question people's account of things when trying to push an agenda."

Depends on the agenda, surely?

In the case of UK bathrooms, trans folk aren't the ones with the agenda, as we have the law on our side. Those seeking to evict us are the ones with the agenda, and Posie Parkers latest stochastic terrorism is just a natural next step to that.

I'll say this again: Trans people are not, as per the OP, "jubilant", we are horrified

Floisme · 31/01/2021 17:20

The law in the UK allows single sex spaces when they are a proportionate means to a legitimate end.

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 31/01/2021 17:23

As ever, I'm curious why posters critical of Posie Parker don't message her on Facebook. She answers you know.

Floisme · 31/01/2021 17:23

Interesting, mind you, to see that women attempting to uphold the law as it is are the ones described as having an agenda.

NancyDrawed · 31/01/2021 17:25

MadBadDaddy

What law do you have on your side? My understanding of the equality act was that someone with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment cannot be treated less fairly than another member of the same sex. So a TW cannot be treated any differently than any other adult male.

Or have I got that wrong?

exLtEveDallas · 31/01/2021 17:30

Sorry @MadBadDaddy but of all your examples, I can only believe the first Daily Mail one, and actually think that probably happened because someone ‘woke’ saw the HRT and did 2+2=5. She certainly looks nothing like a man.

I don’t believe a word that comes out of Ruth Hunts mouth (and didn’t she decide she was trans at some point?), nor Mairi Black. They have their own agenda.

I’m also surprised that any of the others were mistaken for men, they are obviously women (even the one that went on to transition!) There must be some really stupid (or shortsighted) security guards in the US!

MadBadDaddy · 31/01/2021 17:44

@NancyDrawed

MadBadDaddy

What law do you have on your side? My understanding of the equality act was that someone with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment cannot be treated less fairly than another member of the same sex. So a TW cannot be treated any differently than any other adult male.

Or have I got that wrong?

You have got that wrong