Trans athetes & Fairness - podcast

[MerchedCymru]

The excellent Coach Linda Blade armed with lots of facts and the less convincing Joanna Harper armed with persiflage and obfuscation (had to look those up but I'm glad I did) in a debate about female sports.

Worth a listen and worth a share.
munkdebates.com/podcast/trans-athletes-and-fairness?fbclid=IwAR2PsbFtZkZ3VRm57Aal0uDRAdz9jg44CwPCv41ucNDkTCkFT7yl4SMv9yY

Merched Cymru are fighting this in Wales - still waiting for the Welsh Rugby Union to make a decision. (Let us know if you want to pitch in.)

The evidence re fairness and safety is absolutely clear. That we are even having the discussion points to a staggering level of sexism/misogyny.

Thanks OP will check it out!

Thanks for posting... listening now and shared with a couple of friends. Interesting that the host said "castrated" rather than gender confirmation surgery.

To be fair to joanna harper she hasn't hidden behind #nodebate since people started objecting & making the contrary arguments. She was part of the world rugby symposium that produced the new policy.

Joanna Harper has been allowed far too much influence on women’s sports.

@Lordamighty

Joanna Harper has been allowed far too much influence on women’s sports.

Wasn't their study used for determining the IOC guidelines? The study that is one of the least scientifically rigorous I have seen. I believe they were part of the advisory panel for the IOC.

I agree. They have been allowed far too much influence on women's sports.

Winesalot

Here is Harper's study which convinced the IOC in 2015. Read it and weep, they must have been sniffing glue to take this as any kind of scientific guidance.

www.sportsci.org/2016/WCPASabstracts/ID-1699.pdf

Yep, the result of her paper is: “me and a couple of my trans women buddies got slower as we got older”

Literally that is all it is.

However I, too, appreciate JH not taking the no debate stance. I think it may be possible to convince her that either a third division or open / bio female sports are not transphobic.

Thank Andy.

So just more of the usual from Harper. Little by way of scientific rigor, no control, nothing. Not even all at elite level. No comment at all about ensuring training was kept exactly the same, no making sure ‘debulking’ or any other intentional action that would decrease performance at play.

No way to check that the elite level athletes continued in the same competitions. And what actually happened in the years between, did these people stop training and restart. And a ridiculous 12 year age gap between race measurements for some participants. Ummm...

I cannot believe this was even allowed on the table.

It's worth looking at the World Rugby presentations.

Those are just the slide-sets, but just look at the difference between Harper's and Hilton's and Lundberg's.

Two of those are full of information and facts. While one appears to just be a bunch of visual noise to accompany what was presumably a bunch of verbal noise...

The excellent Coach Linda Blade armed with lots of facts and the less convincing Joanna Harper armed with persiflage and obfuscation

So, Linda Blake is a woman and I assume Joanna Harper is male? Just good to know if they have a vested interest in women's sports.

Linda Blake is a female coach and Joanna Harper is a transwoman, who wrote a very flawed study which unduly influenced the IOC to change its rules regarding transgender participation in sports. The most notable change was allowing athletes to compete on the basis of gender and not sex, thus putting women's sport at risk.

@newyearnewname123

The excellent Coach Linda Blade armed with lots of facts and the less convincing Joanna Harper armed with persiflage and obfuscation

So, Linda Blake is a woman and I assume Joanna Harper is male? Just good to know if they have a vested interest in women's sports.

Harper is a male born sportsperson who competes in the women's category and I believe is a PHD candidate. Linda Blade is a very experienced sports coach now but was a Canadian Heptathlete. I think she is also the President of the board for Athletics Alberta.

The willingness of the IOC to accept Harper's 'research', essentially without question, tells its own story. Men have no skin in the game and no interest in supporting or strengthening female sports.

In fact, until very recently, they worked hard to exclude women on all sorts of spurious grounds. Women's sports are significantly underfunded with fewer opportunities and resources. Sexism is rife as many of our members can attest (British Cycling anyone?).

One would have to be naive in the extreme to suppose that sexism and misogyny doesn't play a part in these decisions.

Harper objects to describing males as males as it’s ‘offensive’ and ‘not true’.
I mean WFT? How are grown ups able to discuss this if people like Harper insist on this level of language control? Fair play to Linda Blake for pulling JH up in it.

Yes indeed . Thought Linda dealt with the forced speech demand very well - and hopefully it helped to demonstrate the coercive nature of the movement.

We're watching the US and Canada with alarm here in Wales. Since the GRA statement by the UK Gov, Stonewall have turned their attention to the devolved nations. Lots of pressure on our Labour Gov to follow through on their TWAW stance and open up women-only provision, including sports.

MerchedCymru
I totally agree with you, particularly your last point. This was the lineup at the 2015 IOC meeting.

stillmed.olympic.org/Documents/Commissions_PDFfiles/Medical_commission/2015-11_ioc_consensus_meeting_on_sex_reassignment_and_hyperandrogenism-en.pdf

One of the orher people on that committee was this person.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Jos%C3%A9_Mart%C3%ADnez-Pati%C3%B1o

Interesting Anyold.

Their vantage point was likely to be subjective - as is Joanne Harper's. Understandable in both cases but that really should have been acknowledged.

(Trying to use Coach Blade as a role model for polite reason here while watching my blood pressure rise and rise...).

Harper lies repeatedly through that podcast. Whilst I appreciate any opportunity for reasoned debate on this subject, one side consistently does not play fair. Harper minimises the impact on women as individuals and women’s sport in general, handwaving legacy advantages away. Harper had a seat at the IOC table back in 2015 (unlike actual women) and no doubt told them too not to describe TW as male.

F