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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Biden has completely obliterated woman’s sex based protections as he said he would do.

999 replies

yourfaceisaforeignfood · 21/01/2021 05:45

www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-preventing-and-combating-discrimination-on-basis-of-gender-identity-or-sexual-orientation/

“Children should be able to learn without worrying about whether they will be denied access to the restroom, the locker room, or school sports."

Biden just passed all the worst parts of the Equality Act by executive order (so without going through any legislation at all). It is limited in effect to agencies (I think) but those agencies include the Bureau of Prisons, Dept of Housing and Urban Development, Dept of Education, Dept of Labor etc

This will of course be unchallenged, even welcomed by the media. It will likely have a knock on effect around the world.

And I am so angry. So so angry. He was never the ‘least worst option’ he is the absolute worst option.

As Abigail Shriner says
twitter.com/abigailshrier/status/1352121732723666946?s=21

OP posts:
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17
Quaagars · 21/01/2021 16:22

Cross posted

cinammonbuns · 21/01/2021 16:23

@Jetatyeovilaerodrome and just to answer your questions before I leave. Honestly I don’t know. I definitely believe that there could be some issues with that but at the same time I do believe everybody would be comfortable with that for various reasons. Ideally there would be male, female and gender neutral options for everything so everyone would be comfortable.

PurpleHoodie · 21/01/2021 16:25

Cross post with yourhairiswinterfire

Jetatyeovilaerodrome · 21/01/2021 16:25

[quote cinammonbuns]@Jetatyeovilaerodrome and just to answer your questions before I leave. Honestly I don’t know. I definitely believe that there could be some issues with that but at the same time I do believe everybody would be comfortable with that for various reasons. Ideally there would be male, female and gender neutral options for everything so everyone would be comfortable.[/quote]
Sorry, I don't understand what that means, it's not very clear.

But to be honest if you 'don't know' then it's probably best if you quit having a go at the women on this board who are concerned about this issue.

cinammonbuns · 21/01/2021 16:25

@PurpleHoodie well of course I do know that there would be some non white women who are concerned about these issues but in my experience from the the media it does mainly seem to be white women. I am not 100% clued up about everybody in the movement but that’s the general impression I get.

yourhairiswinterfire · 21/01/2021 16:26

twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1290181205321637888

Happy Monday everyone. So, when the usual suspects spout their usual nonsense about the gender critical movement in the UK being an extension of white feminism, etc, remind them that EVERY key case before the courts right now is being brought by women of colour.

Maya Forstater
Raquel Rosario-Sanchez
Keira Bell
Sonia Appleby
Me (Allison Bailey)

Now consider the key names who denounce ''white feminism'' and champion trans politics. White men. Every last one of them. It would be funny if it wasn't so expletive, expletive.

cinammonbuns · 21/01/2021 16:27

@Jetatyeovilaerodrome I don’t believe I am having a go at anybody on this board, just offering up an alternative opinion. If you have any examples do when I have attacked anybody on this board I am happy to apologise for it.

TheBuffster · 21/01/2021 16:27

@cinammonbuns I wasn't dismissing racism in the UK, I absolutely acknowledge it's there. I was referring more to the fact that it's much less 'open' than the UK and more structural and embedded in everything. That makes it more difficult to combat. For example I've reported nasty attacks on Diane Abbott on Facebook, but because they are not overtly racist they are left to stand. Have you read Akala's take on knife crime? He thinks it's very much an intertwined race/class/sex issue so you can see why people care about both issues.

And yes, racism doesn't affect me. (Directly anyway) But you know what trans rights is unlikely to much either. I'm unlikely to go to prison, middle class and have no girls just a boy.

It doesn't mean I should ignore either issue.

And I already consider myself to do quite a bit for black rights. I'm a teacher and had to battle my senior leadership to get black people in our history curriculum- not just for black history month which they deemed enough.
It's always a bit disheartening when someone accuses you of not caring simply because you care about multiple issues at once.

ArabellaScott · 21/01/2021 16:28

@yourhairiswinterfire

twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1290181205321637888

Happy Monday everyone. So, when the usual suspects spout their usual nonsense about the gender critical movement in the UK being an extension of white feminism, etc, remind them that EVERY key case before the courts right now is being brought by women of colour.

Maya Forstater
Raquel Rosario-Sanchez
Keira Bell
Sonia Appleby
Me (Allison Bailey)

Now consider the key names who denounce ''white feminism'' and champion trans politics. White men. Every last one of them. It would be funny if it wasn't so expletive, expletive.

Exactly this.
cinammonbuns · 21/01/2021 16:29

And I was saying that in all the scenarios you mentioned I believe the ideal situation would be categories and areas for males, females and also a gender neutral category.

However I am aware of issues arising from biologically females who identify as trans men in sporting events with trans women as obviously there is a biological difference.

PurpleHoodie · 21/01/2021 16:29

What yourhairiswinterfire just posted.

Well said Allison.

It's as if people don't think black and brown women could...or should have a feminist voice.

Jetatyeovilaerodrome · 21/01/2021 16:30

[quote cinammonbuns]@PurpleHoodie well of course I do know that there would be some non white women who are concerned about these issues but in my experience from the the media it does mainly seem to be white women. I am not 100% clued up about everybody in the movement but that’s the general impression I get.[/quote]
Yes, well that is probably because the loudest voices shout about 'white feminism' and 'Karens' as a way of silencing women on this issue and those are the voices you have heard. And this completely obliterates the fact that the most courageous women in this battle, who have had the guts and the tenacity to fundraise and go to court, and drag this issue out into the light to try and help other women and girls, are not white women?

EdgeOfACoin · 21/01/2021 16:31

@EdgeOfACoin

Hypothetical scenario: Two people are made redundant when they announce their pregnancy at work. They sue their former company for sexism. They lose the case because both men and women get pregnant, therefore it was not sexism.

To those of you implying that we are all overreacting, such as Quaagars how do you respond to that scenario? Who was right in this scenario?

I know I'm quoting my own post here, but since noone has answered it, I am posting it again.

How does the above scenario impact women? Are women of colour more or less impacted than white women by the issues raised, or does it have the same impact regardless of race? Does it matter if the pregnant people:
A) wear dresses and lipstick and call themselves Rachel and Julia
B) Wear trousers and binders and call themselves Richard and John
C) are a woman named Rachel (who sometimes wears trousers and does not wear lipstick) and a transman named John

Do you agree that the case was not an example of sexism?

Or is this hypothetical case so farfetched that it couldn't possibly happen and I'm just catatrophising?

Clymene · 21/01/2021 16:31

You might want to read Lipstick Alley @cinammonbuns if you think black women are down with TWAW.

cinammonbuns · 21/01/2021 16:32

@TheBuffster I have never accused you of not caring and I do not believe that all white women do not care about the issues of non white women. I think I have been misunderstood. I simply was highlighting that perhaps as many non white women would say their race is more limiting than there sex in their lives then it is harder for me to understand why issues such as these are such a big deal if that makes sense?

I actually acknowledge that as someone who has been fortunate enough to never have been sexually assaulted I likely have a biased view of issues around trans women in female spaces and that is something I will investigate further.

feelingquitehopeful · 21/01/2021 16:32

You have already said you don't think it is important cina so its probably best to focus on what is important to you and start your own thread. Anyone who thinks rape in prisons is an insignificant matter probably is not best placed to help us anyway.

Anyone can post what they want, all welcome, but we don't beat twin evils of racism and sexism with division.

Jetatyeovilaerodrome · 21/01/2021 16:32

Oh I thought for a minute that Allison was actually on this thread and was about to fan girl so hard! Grin

PurpleHoodie · 21/01/2021 16:32

And this completely obliterates the fact that the most courageous women in this battle, who have had the guts and the tenacity to fundraise and go to court, and drag this issue out into the light to try and help other women and girls, are not white women?

Flowers
cinammonbuns · 21/01/2021 16:33

@ArabellaScott this is genuinely the first time I have seen a black British gender critical feminist and I am now seeing the issue is not simply an extension of white feminism which was my impression before.

ArabellaScott · 21/01/2021 16:35

cinnamon, I would broadly agree with you wrt third spaces. Unfortunately this option doesn't meet with approval from trans rights activists/genderists.

Any viewpoint that doesn't completely align with 'transwomen are women' (we are supposed to take that completely literally) is enough to have you lose your job, be hounded, attacked and vilified. Whatever the colour of your skin.

cinammonbuns · 21/01/2021 16:36

@feelingquitehopeful I would take kindly if you wouldn’t put words into my mouth. I said that for me this issues is less of an issue than my race in MY life. I do not believe it is unimportant in the world at all.

TheBuffster · 21/01/2021 16:36

@Clymene

You might want to read Lipstick Alley *@cinammonbuns* if you think black women are down with TWAW.
Who's the author please?
SuperHighway · 21/01/2021 16:36

People need to start opening their eyes....

Biden has completely obliterated woman’s sex based protections as he said he would do.
PotholeParadies · 21/01/2021 16:36

The trans activists seem pretty white, tbh.

Witness Australia where a white Green MP and a group of white demonstrators were falling over themselves to prioritise access for pre-op (that is, with a penis) people to access a women's only swimming pool that had been a traditional indigenous sacred birthing pool.

In the process, they trampled over indigenous traditions, local Muslim women and orthodox Jewish women, and local orders of nuns.

So inclusive, eh? And this pattern of behaviour is part of what has made me GC. I don't hate trans people, but I am accustomed to studying and working alongside observant Muslim women, and I grew up in that period when not being Islamophobic was more fashionable than advettising trans allyship. Consequently, I am aware that if there are no single-sex spaces, e.g. toilets, it excludes girls and women who choose (or who are pressured) to wear hijab, because they have nowhere they may remove or adjust it. Or as we used to call it, religious discrimination. Whatever you may think of any individual religion and its precepts, putting barriers in place for Muslim teenage girls doesn't help them.

I find the idea of schools where teenage girls don't feel able to take off their headscarf in the toilets quite monstrous. So should anyone who regards themselves as progressive.

yourhairiswinterfire · 21/01/2021 16:37

@Jetatyeovilaerodrome

Oh I thought for a minute that Allison was actually on this thread and was about to fan girl so hard! Grin
Sorry to disappoint Grin