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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GIDS rated ‘inadequate’ by CQC

194 replies

TheFleegleHasLanded · 20/01/2021 00:28

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/20/gender-identity-development-service-for-children-rated-inadequate

OP posts:
Manderleyagain · 20/01/2021 23:48

Does anyone know when the cass review is expected to be published. Its obviously supposed to be 2021,but I wonder when. The NHS press release /info announcing the review (thanks to th pp who linked it) mentioned that this cqc inspection was expected.

Binglebong · 21/01/2021 00:15

Thanks! It clicked as soon as I saw the full name - just couldn't remember the acronym.

PlantMam · 21/01/2021 01:53

@Manderleyagain

Does anyone know when the cass review is expected to be published. Its obviously supposed to be 2021,but I wonder when. The NHS press release /info announcing the review (thanks to th pp who linked it) mentioned that this cqc inspection was expected.
I’ve not come across a completion/publishing date. Am keeping an eye out!

Dr Cass has this pinned tweet:

twitter.com/Hilary_Cass/status/1311725988670255105

OnlyTheLangoftheTitBerg · 21/01/2021 02:10

Has anyone who is wanging on about this being all about waiting lists paused to consider the fact that waiting times and caseloads might have been shorter/smaller had the Tavistock’s worryingly shoddy working practices and toxic environment not led to such a notable turnover of experienced clinicians in the first place?

NonHypotheticalLurkingParent · 21/01/2021 11:35

tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/governance/council-of-governors/meeting-and-papers/

Tuesday 5 June – Meeting agenda and papers

The adult Gender Identity Clinic (GIC) that is based at Charing Cross is now under the Tavistock and Portman umbrella and, has been very fruitful, as it makes it easier for young people to make the transition from adolescent to adult. We are seeing much younger children making the transitions and we have close connections with CAMHS.
Ms Miller enquired what resources were available for face to face
counselling and psychotherapy within the service. Dr Carmichael said that the national service did not provide psychological support and that if required they would consult with the local psychotherapists to do the work through CAMHS.

Looks like the GIDS service is not set up to to offer counselling and psychotherapy. Referring to the local CAMHS is just shifting the funding/waiting list problem. Our local services only have one psychologist, no experts on trauma, etc.

HecatesCats · 21/01/2021 11:40

GIDs were lucky the inspection report was published on Inauguration Day. Great day to bury bad news. Would have gained more traction had it not been I'm sure.

Thingybob · 21/01/2021 12:00

@NonHypotheticalLurkingParent

tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/governance/council-of-governors/meeting-and-papers/

Tuesday 5 June – Meeting agenda and papers

The adult Gender Identity Clinic (GIC) that is based at Charing Cross is now under the Tavistock and Portman umbrella and, has been very fruitful, as it makes it easier for young people to make the transition from adolescent to adult. We are seeing much younger children making the transitions and we have close connections with CAMHS.
Ms Miller enquired what resources were available for face to face
counselling and psychotherapy within the service. Dr Carmichael said that the national service did not provide psychological support and that if required they would consult with the local psychotherapists to do the work through CAMHS.

Looks like the GIDS service is not set up to to offer counselling and psychotherapy. Referring to the local CAMHS is just shifting the funding/waiting list problem. Our local services only have one psychologist, no experts on trauma, etc.

They seem to not provide a lot of things, including endocrinology now, which leaves me wondering what it is they do provide and why that needs to be provided at a centralised, specialist setting?

I've seen online comments from GIDS families saying that they felt like unwilling research participants to satisfy the curiousity or personal research of the GIDS clinicians. I do hope there is more to GIDS than that.

PlantMam · 21/01/2021 12:06

@NonHypotheticalLurkingParent

tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/governance/council-of-governors/meeting-and-papers/

Tuesday 5 June – Meeting agenda and papers

The adult Gender Identity Clinic (GIC) that is based at Charing Cross is now under the Tavistock and Portman umbrella and, has been very fruitful, as it makes it easier for young people to make the transition from adolescent to adult. We are seeing much younger children making the transitions and we have close connections with CAMHS.
Ms Miller enquired what resources were available for face to face
counselling and psychotherapy within the service. Dr Carmichael said that the national service did not provide psychological support and that if required they would consult with the local psychotherapists to do the work through CAMHS.

Looks like the GIDS service is not set up to to offer counselling and psychotherapy. Referring to the local CAMHS is just shifting the funding/waiting list problem. Our local services only have one psychologist, no experts on trauma, etc.

So why is the service mostly staffed by psychologists then, eh Polly?

I just posted this on another thread, it’s from Kirsty Entwistle (former clinical psychologist at GIDS Leeds satellite) to Polly Carmichael.
May as well post it here too, while it’s still on the copy and paste clipboard of my phone - if you compare Kirsty’s experience to the CQC report you can see how the systemic failures flagged up by the CQC manifest in real, tangible ways. The whole letter is well worth reading (especially as it talks about the unsupportive culture and the intimidating atmosphere at staff meetings and Cade reviews) but the bits I had pulled out for the other thread highlight the vulnerability of the patients group, and the lack of promised joining up with agencies (CAMHS, Social Services etc) local to the child and their family.

There is a ‘system’ for scoring the referral as low, medium or high complexity. I frequently voiced my concern that colleagues were not seeing abandonment/estrangement by a parent as an indicator of complexity. For me, this was another reason that made me feel so disoriented. In my Clinical Psychology training and in other services the loss of or abandonment by a parent would be something to be explored and the impact understood but I felt that at GIDS this factor was often minimised or dismissed.
I was also shocked by the complexity of referrals. I read many referrals of children who have been sexually abused and many children have witnessed and/or been subjected to domestic violence.

I also felt that was an overrepresentation of the young people who were living in poverty. I had a young person whose family were living within such extreme financial constraints that he considered it a treat to buy a can of pop. I also had another young person who was living in a very complex and unstable arrangement who arrived to sessions in a poor state of hygiene and said that there wasn’t money for hygiene products. How is it ethical to undertake a gender identity assessment with the view to a medical pathway when there are children and young people do not have their most basic needs met?

In terms of complexity I also had on my caseload several young people who declined to communicate verbally or communicated verbally to a very limited extent. I think that at GIDS verbal communication difficulties are often minimised as transmales being afraid to speak because they have a ‘feminine voice’ but in all of these cases I believe that there was something more complex than that going on. Again, it’s very difficult to undertake a gender identity assessment with a young person who struggles to communicate verbally, especially within the time constraints of the service.

One of the other major factors that meant that I could not sustain working at GIDS was the failure of social care to provide support to the young people I referred. As the children come from all over the North of England I was dealing with several different social care teams trying to get support for my patients who were either doing risky things, living in risky situations or in contact with risky people. In none of my cases was input from social care secured.
How is it possible to undertake a gender identity assessment when young people are living in these circumstances and sometimes even more extreme? I do not believe that GIDS can claim to function effectively when it is part of a broader system that is failing to provide adequate support and protection for children and young people.
I also believe that there are clinicians at GIDS who are putting vulnerable children on the medical pathway when they are not receiving proper input from CAMHS and Social Care with regards to mental health problems and complex family and housing difficulties.

medium.com/@kirstyentwistle/an-open-letter-to-dr-polly-carmichael-from-a-former-gids-clinician-53c541276b8d

(Coming back to this open letter now, 18 months after it was published, with all that had happened in between, it seems to me that Kirsty Entwistle is an extraordinarily brave and principled woman.)

PlantMam · 21/01/2021 12:07

@HecatesCats

GIDs were lucky the inspection report was published on Inauguration Day. Great day to bury bad news. Would have gained more traction had it not been I'm sure.
And a terrible day for Covid death statistics in the U.K. too.

A great day to get a controversial story buried.

OldCrone · 21/01/2021 12:35

From Kirsty Entwistle's letter:

In terms of complexity I also had on my caseload several young people who declined to communicate verbally or communicated verbally to a very limited extent. I think that at GIDS verbal communication difficulties are often minimised as transmales being afraid to speak because they have a ‘feminine voice’ but in all of these cases I believe that there was something more complex than that going on. Again, it’s very difficult to undertake a gender identity assessment with a young person who struggles to communicate verbally, especially within the time constraints of the service.

This is from the CQC's inspection report (p 15):

Staff communicated with young people so that they understood their care and treatment, including finding effective ways to communicate with young people with communication difficulties. Records showed that clinicians spoke with young people in a way that was supportive and appropriate to their age. The service had also provided an illustrated guide to puberty and hormone blockers for young people who may have found it difficult to read detailed text.

So children with communication difficulties have been given a picture-book guide to the effects of hormone blockers. And then decided they were competent to understand the full effects of taking these drugs followed by opposite sex hormones.

PlantMam · 21/01/2021 12:40

I remember that the natal girl in (the Tavistock coproduced) channel 4 film, ‘Kids on the Edge’ communicated to her clinicians/mother mostly by drawing (yet seemed far more confident and chatty amongst her peers in school footage).

(Don’t smite me for pronouns, MNHQ, I’m using what was used in the film. I haven’t heard anything about how the story panned out beyond that point, so do not know if she eventually socially transitioned or not).

Thingybob · 21/01/2021 12:55

@PlantMam

I remember that the natal girl in (the Tavistock coproduced) channel 4 film, ‘Kids on the Edge’ communicated to her clinicians/mother mostly by drawing (yet seemed far more confident and chatty amongst her peers in school footage).

(Don’t smite me for pronouns, MNHQ, I’m using what was used in the film. I haven’t heard anything about how the story panned out beyond that point, so do not know if she eventually socially transitioned or not).

I believe that child was severely autistic. You could give someone endless illustrated guides and pictures but that would not help with communication if the person they were communicating with had no experience or understanding of autism.
PlantMam · 21/01/2021 13:08

Yes, that was my impression too. Obvs I’m not a professional and if I were it would be unethical to diagnose strangers through the telly!
I hope whatever happened next, she is well supported.

And that the CQC report means GIDS are now compelled to found a specialist team for children with ASD/Autistic traits/ADHD.

I would like to see all referrals to GIDS screened for ASD in the first instance, via some kind of triage type system.

bishopgiggles · 21/01/2021 14:23

We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that some - many? - adults with ASD are transgender though, and are happy transitioning. ASD doesn't automatically mean you don't understand gender and sex. (Being a child might, though).

MoleSmokes · 21/01/2021 14:41

ASD is a very wide spectrum bishopgiggles. How many adult late-transitioners are you aware of that have such severe communication problems as the children being discussed here?

I am very suspicious of trans activists “advocating” for the rights of children with ASD to have “bodily autonomy” when they mean “right to be drugged and put on a medical pathway to invasive, irreversible surgery”.

Not a dig at you, bishopgiggles, it is just something that has floored me in the past, the attitude of, “nothing must be allowed to stand in the way of transition”.

Given the serious mental and physical health issues and unhappiness suffered by many adult transitioners, it would be interesting to know whether those who have ASD are more, less or just as likely to be happy as those without a diagnosis of ASD, everything else being equal.

bishopgiggles · 21/01/2021 14:50

Sorry, wasnt meant to be a comment on the communication issues, more a general comment. As you say, it's a wide spectrum. I've learnt loads from ASD feminists!

2fallsagain · 22/01/2021 10:34

Just putting this here. SSAUK has put together a letter following the Kiera Bell case for parents to send to your county councils:

"In light of the recent High Court judgement that children under 16 should not be prescribed puberty blockers, we are encouraging parents and carers to write to their own county council and ask them to make sure that their trans policies and schools guidance are in line with the ruling of the High Court. We would like hear from you what response you have from your council. We would also encourage parents to adapt the letter to send to their school / Multi-Academy Trust if they are concerned about the school’s policies."

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/letter-templates/

Binglebong · 22/01/2021 17:10

Bumping the letter request

misscockerspaniel · 23/01/2021 15:49

We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that some - many?- adults with ASD are transgender.

No, what we shouldn't lose sight of is the fact -actual fact- that those who are ND are gullible and susceptible to being influenced. (I am ND).

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