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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A horrific example of how badly wrong surrogacy can go

113 replies

everythingcrossed · 19/01/2021 18:34

The Times is reporting on a well-know Chinese actress, Zheng Shuang, who commissioned two women in the States to have babies for her and her boyfriend. When they split up, she was recorded ranting that it was unfair that she couldn't have the babies aborted or put up for adoption. (This recording has led to her losing a Prada contract which was the hook for the story.)

In the recording Zheng allegedly expressed frustration that her two surrogates in the United States could not legally abort their pregnancies in the third trimester. Her parents are said to have told her to give the children up for adoption.

The children, who were born in December 2019 and January 2020 have, according to the report, been left in the States because Zheng won't take responsibility for them.

It's an absolutely horrifying portrait of entitlement and lack of conscience. What struck me in particular was the more general observation in the piece that It is common for wealthy Chinese couples and single people to have children through surrogate mothers in other countries such as Russia and Ukraine. Several US states are also popular. Within China the issue is highly contentious, especially because the black market has led to many disputes between clients and surrogates.

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OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 19/01/2021 19:41

Thanks OP. I saw the story on Weibo so interesting to see the Times covering it.

The boyfriend is the generic father as this other article said as his name is on the birth certificate. He says he has been 'stranded' in the US but I imagine had to stay to stop her from having the babies adopted? I'm not sure what rights she would then have if she disowned the man's maybe she wasn't the genetic mother? The article wasn't clear so thanks for the share token.

I feel awful for the babies but also the poor mothers. They were each 7 months pregnant when basically the baby their bodies were growing had their order cancelled. This will be worth watching to see how it turns out legally. It's also interesting to see coverage of this in China. Many commissioning parents for surrogate born babies in the states are from China and there is a cultural shift being attempted if you ask me.

OvaHere · 19/01/2021 19:46

That's dreadful. Those poor women and children Sad

What is the reasoning behind two babies within a month of each other with separate surrogates? That in itself is quite odd.

Youngatheart00 · 19/01/2021 19:48

Disgraceful, abhorrent behaviour, even more so as I am a long term infertility sufferer.

I truly hope those poor children find a loving home.

That woman should never work again.

NorthernIrishFeminist · 19/01/2021 19:49

Wow that’s cold

LizFlowers · 19/01/2021 19:54

Zheng Shuang is only 29! I hadn't heard of her until reading this and imagined she was a middle aged woman.

This is horrible, however her ex is named as the father so he must have some say in the fate of the babies.

Surrogacy is a dubious business at the best of times but this takes the biscuit.

Oblomov20 · 19/01/2021 20:08

She Sounds vile. What a shame.

FannyCann · 19/01/2021 20:09

Yes, for all her abhorrent behaviour, if the boyfriend is the genetic father and an equal partner to the contract then he bears equal responsibility. Indeed, it seems strange that he couldn't simply take the babies on if he wanted to. Meanwhile it is the girlfriend who is publicly vilified.

It's not clear whether she is the genetic mother. I'd lay a bet that she was never interested in going through pregnancy and childbirth for herself, especially with a career as a model, and that this was a social contract. And maybe the boyfriend was more keen to start a family than herself.

I'm not in anyway justifying her behaviour of course. The whole thing is appalling in every way and perfectly demonstrates the horrors of surrogacy and treating children as disposable consumer items. Not to mention the total disregard for the women employed to gestate the babies on order.

PatchworkElmer · 19/01/2021 20:14

Disgusting

YouBoughtMeAWall · 19/01/2021 20:19

This just sums up surrogacy for me. This is it. This is surrogacy. It’s driven by people who think people are for sale and they can cancel their order if they change their mind. Disgusting. People who should never be around children, never mind raising them.

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 19/01/2021 20:45

I don't really have an opinion either way on surrogacy but have seen a lot of opinions strongly against it on MN. If it was surrogacy entirely within the UK, the surrogate doing it completely altruistically and getting paid nothing and the person who is going to be getting the baby (sorry I'm not sure of the exact terminology) then is it viewed as badly?

PlantMam · 19/01/2021 20:49

Is Chinese nationality dependent on the mother? Because if the commissioning ‘mother’ has refused to take on the legal status of mother, then the children may well technically be American (born to American women within the US).

Depending on Chinese law, the commissioning ‘father’ (perhaps biological father) may not be able to get them Chinese citizenship based on his nationality alone?

But yes, this is another compelling illustration of how shitty surrogacy is for babies and the women tasked with carrying them.

TriflePudding · 19/01/2021 20:57

AwaAnBileYerHeid

Surrogacy is the deliberate separation of baby from mother at birth, which has devastating impacts on both.

There is a reason that the threshold is so high for removing babies who may be vulnerable/at risk, because it has to be the absolute last resort because of the profound lasting impact.

ArabellaScott · 19/01/2021 20:59

Appalling.

ArabellaScott · 19/01/2021 21:01

Awa, it's deliberately breaking that bond of the mother/baby dyad that is so incredibly important. It's also commodifying both babies and women's bodies, whether or not money is involved. IMO.

everythingcrossed · 19/01/2021 21:13

The way that the Times reported it suggested that it is definitely becoming a lifestyle choice among wealthy Chinese women - as others have pointed out, Zhang is only 29 but her career probably made a pregnancy difficult so she just splurged on a baby overseas - and why not have two while she's at it, get the whole motherhood thing out of the way? It was the entitlement and lack of feeling that horrified me - and it worries me that others see parenthood via surrogacy as a right rather than a responsibility. Those poor children and those poor women in the States who were left high and dry.

It's an appalling tale admittedly about the extreme end of surrogacy but the more that surrogacy is seen as a transaction, the more likely it is that people will "commission" babies and change their minds. The whole process appals me.

OP posts:
FannyCann · 19/01/2021 21:14

If it was surrogacy entirely within the UK, the surrogate doing it completely altruistically and getting paid nothing and the person who is going to be getting the baby (sorry I'm not sure of the exact terminology) then is it viewed as badly?

I think one of the problems with this @AwaAnBileYerHeid is that the middle class woman in the UK who does this for their best friend or sister contributes to the general enthusiastic support for surrogacy in the media and the public. It does indeed seem fairly benign in the Uk (although there have been plenty of problem cases I could cite) because surrogacy in the UK remains fairly niche, the numbers are small, and in theory we do not have commercial surrogacy albeit "expenses" average around £15k with an increasing number topping £20K. Surrogate mothers are well cared for by the NHS and so there is a degree of protection. This drives the trade, and contributes to people seeking out cheaper destinations and poorer, more desperate women who will be paid considerably less and subject to these types of abuse.

But it's just like those middle class professionals who indulge in a bit of cocaine at their smart dinner parties. People who wouldn't dream of eating a battery farmed egg are completely ignorant of the harms of the cocaine trade (crime, damage to the Amazon rainforest, exploitation) and are equally ignorant of the widespread abuse of women and babies through surrogacy in other parts of the world.

I generally refer to the person who is getting the baby as a commissioning parent. They have, after all, commissioned a baby in a commercial deal.

Brood parasite is the name for species such as cuckoos who farm out the raising of their young. I suggest there is a correlation.

ChakaDakotaRegina · 19/01/2021 21:19

Frighteningly cold. If she thinks you can the terminate at 7 months she’s obviously never bothered to even look at what pregnancy entails. Not even glanced at it.
And she’s just dropped the idea. Like an abandoned lockdown puppy.
Those poor women and poor babies.

FannyCann · 19/01/2021 21:22

@PlantMam

then the children may well technically be American (born to American women within the US).

Babies born in the USA are USA citizens (or entitled to citizenship) which is another advantage of using an American surrogate mother.
The babies are known as "anchor babies" as this article explains.

With Surrogate Mothers, US Citizenship Is for Sale
by Jennifer Lahl, CBC President

The international surrogacyy market is fraught with problems, but one major problem that goes largely unnoticed is that U.S. citizenshipp is being bought and sold to international couples who hire U.S. surrogate mothers to carry their children to birth.
Here is a short primer on how one becomes a U.S. citizen. First, most Americans have birthright citizenship, meaning anyone born on U.S. soil is automatically deemed a citizen of the United States. Second, one can become a citizen through naturalization, which happens by going through the legal immigration steps, applying for citizenship, and having citizenship granted.
The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution has as its first sentence the Citizenship Clausee_, which states, “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
But can you buy citizenship in the United States?
The answer is “Yes,” and it is quite easy and relatively affordable, all things considered. Babies born of U.S. surrogates to international couples are often referred to as anchor babies, because by virtue of being born in the United States, these children secure an anchor as citizens, afforded all the rights and benefits of that citizenship.
And those rights and benefits are many: the right to vote, the right to a U.S. passport, and most importantly, the right to “family unification,” or the provision of a pathway to citizenship for other family members who may want to come to the United States.
As Andy J. Semotiuk wrotee_ in Forbes, “Anchor babies, birth tourism, and surrogacy are pushing the envelope of what are the rights of citizenship in North America.”
Reproductive or birth tourism is a booming business. As one country cracks down on the buying and selling of eggs or sperm, or the renting of uteruses, the Big Fertility market shifts to accommodate the change.
For example, in China, all surrogacy is illegal, as is the sale of human eggs, so the Chinese flock to the United States to buy a baby. In fact, I have interviewed several U.S. surrogates who were contracted to carry babies for couples in China.
One whistleblower I spoke with worked for an agency in southern California and handled the VIP clients. When asked who those clients were, she said she worked solely with Chinese, who came with loads of cash to buy eggs and rent wombs.
She described to me how it wasn’t uncommon for the Chinese to hire two or three surrogates, and once their pregnancies were confirmed and the sex and health of the babies were determined, the couple would choose which pregnancy they wanted to continue and which ones they wanted to be terminated.
If that isn’t enough to say we need to stop this birth tourism industry, perhaps these storiess_ will be. A surrogacy attorney in New Jersey reported that a Chinese person approached her, wanting her to represent him in a U.S. surrogacy arrangement, but what didn’t seem right was this person wanted to hire five surrogates at the same time. In another case, the foreigner “wanted to keep two babies, and put the rest up for adoption,” according to a different surrogacy attorney.
With U.S. citizenship granted to five babies, three of which were going to be put up for adoption, most certainly to the highest bidder, it isn’t much of a leap to think of baby traffickingg rings. In fact, two women in Vietnamm were busted on a surrogacy baby-selling ring, selling babies to people in China.
And this practice works both ways.
In 2015, three individuals who ran a multimillion-dollar fertility agency in Irvine, California, were arrestedd_ “in the biggest federal criminal probe ever to target the thriving industry, in which pregnant women come to the United States to give birth so their children will become American citizens,” according to The New York Times.
The U.S. Department of State has a policyy_ on how U.S. couples who travel abroad to hire a foreign woman as a surrogate can be sure to have U.S. citizenship granted to their baby born of surrogacy in another country. Sadly, the State Department needs to address the problem within our own house, of granting citizenship to anchor babies.
As it stands, when surrogacy is involved, the child is used as a commodity, a means to an end, if you will, and that end is U.S. citizenship.

https://mailchi.mp/stopsurrogacynow/egg-freezing-parties-and-artificial-wombs-425150?e=63ad6d7206

FannyCann · 19/01/2021 21:30

AwaAnBileYerHeid

If you would like to learn more and find podcasts interesting to listen to I recommend this one, which is the first of three and covers most of the issues very clearly. It is from the USA, where things are quite different to the UK but moves are afoot to "update" UK surrogacy law, more in keeping with the USA, and also, as I said, this is a worldwide problem, it's not enough just to think oh well, in the UK it's fairly benign.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/free-birth-society/id1231912533?i=1000465605381

MissBarbary · 19/01/2021 21:32

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

I don't really have an opinion either way on surrogacy but have seen a lot of opinions strongly against it on MN. If it was surrogacy entirely within the UK, the surrogate doing it completely altruistically and getting paid nothing and the person who is going to be getting the baby (sorry I'm not sure of the exact terminology) then is it viewed as badly?
Yes by most posters on here. I would ban it completely- in all circumstances. It's the ultimate "gimme, gimme, gimme.
EdgeOfACoin · 19/01/2021 21:35

Sadly, the State Department needs to address the problem within our own house, of granting citizenship to anchor babies.

But if surrogacy is illegal in China and the baby is not born on Chinese soil to a Chinese birth mother, would the Chinese government grant the baby citizenship?

And if the US changed course and refused to grant anchor babies citizenship, then the babies would be stateless. That would be against international human rights law.

YouBoughtMeAWall · 19/01/2021 21:36

If it was surrogacy entirely within the UK, the surrogate doing it completely altruistically and getting paid nothing and the person who is going to be getting the baby (sorry I'm not sure of the exact terminology) then is it viewed as badly?

If there were enough women willing to do it under these circumstances then no one in the UK would be paying anyone anywhere for babies- but they are. So that tells you there aren’t enough women willing to do it for nothing - which tells you it isn’t an attractive prospect without a financial incentive. Which means they’re not doing it out of free choice.

TripleHHH · 19/01/2021 21:48

Absolutely awful. Unfortunately, it’s quite common in India as well. British born Indians, who struggle to conceive, can pay women (mostly women living in poverty) in India to carry a child for them. I know several people who have done this. It’s not exclusive to British Asians but commonplace, especially as the costs are so low. You can ‘hire’ a surrogate for as little as £5000.

On another note, I can not believe this horrible woman is pushing for an abortion at 7 months. Given that my boys were born at 28 weeks, that has really hit me. Absolutely disgusting.

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/apr/01/outsourcing-pregnancy-india-surrogacy-clinics-julie-bindel

Oreservoir · 19/01/2021 21:51

Having a baby is often the most dangerous thing a woman will ever do
@AwaAnBileYerHeid. Hence the financial incentive.
I think altruism is rare and usually because the surrogate is a family member or friend.

SoSheDid · 19/01/2021 21:56

@everythingcrossed

The Times is reporting on a well-know Chinese actress, Zheng Shuang, who commissioned two women in the States to have babies for her and her boyfriend. When they split up, she was recorded ranting that it was unfair that she couldn't have the babies aborted or put up for adoption. (This recording has led to her losing a Prada contract which was the hook for the story.)

In the recording Zheng allegedly expressed frustration that her two surrogates in the United States could not legally abort their pregnancies in the third trimester. Her parents are said to have told her to give the children up for adoption.

The children, who were born in December 2019 and January 2020 have, according to the report, been left in the States because Zheng won't take responsibility for them.

It's an absolutely horrifying portrait of entitlement and lack of conscience. What struck me in particular was the more general observation in the piece that It is common for wealthy Chinese couples and single people to have children through surrogate mothers in other countries such as Russia and Ukraine. Several US states are also popular. Within China the issue is highly contentious, especially because the black market has led to many disputes between clients and surrogates.

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Just read the comments in the link...

Gestational carrier (GC) I have no words to describe how angry this term make me.

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