A horrific example of how badly wrong surrogacy can go

[everythingcrossed]

The Times is reporting on a well-know Chinese actress, Zheng Shuang, who commissioned two women in the States to have babies for her and her boyfriend. When they split up, she was recorded ranting that it was unfair that she couldn't have the babies aborted or put up for adoption. (This recording has led to her losing a Prada contract which was the hook for the story.)

In the recording Zheng allegedly expressed frustration that her two surrogates in the United States could not legally abort their pregnancies in the third trimester. Her parents are said to have told her to give the children up for adoption.

The children, who were born in December 2019 and January 2020 have, according to the report, been left in the States because Zheng won't take responsibility for them.

It's an absolutely horrifying portrait of entitlement and lack of conscience. What struck me in particular was the more general observation in the piece that It is common for wealthy Chinese couples and single people to have children through surrogate mothers in other countries such as Russia and Ukraine. Several US states are also popular. Within China the issue is highly contentious, especially because the black market has led to many disputes between clients and surrogates.

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I’ve just been looking at some stories of gay Chinese parents using American surrogates (thinking it might shed some light on the issue that the Chinese dad might be facing now co-missioning ex has backed out) and it seems they generally like the American mother to stay on the birth certificate (presumably to be able to claim the child’s US passport) so not having a Chinese mother definitely isn’t causing the blockage.

Maybe dad is using them as an anchor for himself?
Either that or the intended ‘mother’ signed paperwork giving her some kind of legal jurisdiction over the unborn babies and is refusing to relinquish it? No way of knowing if they are even related to her - apparently Chinese parents quite often use American egg donors as well as American surrogate mothers?

Whatever is going on, it’s a mess. Those poor babies.

Gestational carrier (GC) I have no words to describe how angry this term make me.

Yes, it's so clinical and devoid of humanity. If language like this has to be utilised so people can distance themselves from the reality of their actions then there should be a big question mark over just how ethical what they're doing is.

At least those babies won’t be stuck with that cold-hearted woman as their mother.

Awful story.

Have just left a comment telling the person referring to their surrogate as a gestational carrier, that they should be ashamed of using such a dehumanising term. Awful.

Wow. There's low and then there's this shit.

I truly hope the bitch never works again.

From what I've read on Chinese pop culture sites her ex-boyfriend actually HAS been looking after the kids and taking full responsibility after she opted out, but he needs her cooperation to bring them back to China and she has thus far refused to do so and his American visa is running out, which is presumably why the recordings of her were recently "leaked" by an unnamed friend in an attempt to force her hand.

Additionally she is listed as the mother on both their birth certificates.

If she is on the birth certificate then he will not be able to get the babies US passports and leave the US without her involvement: due to the risk of parental abduction I believe US law states that both parents need to give permission for the passports and to leave the country, so if he is deported for overstaying his visa he will not be able to return for ten years and the babies will stay in the US. I don't know whether she needs to be involved for them to get Chinese citizenship.

Those poor children.

That makes sense. Surely their birth place still makes them US citizens though, so dad can apply to stay there on those grounds? Otherwise what, his children become wards of the US State?

Of course, he may well just want to go home, with his kids, and it not really be about the visa expiry at all, which is fair enough.

Wonder how it would’ve panned out if the commissioning ‘mother’ had been pregnant with twins herself when the relationship broke down? Too late to terminate - would she have been willing to relinquish babies she’d carried inside her and given her ex sole custody from birth?

The sad fact of surrogacy is that even with the most altruistic of arrangements, you don’t get that pregnancy bond. I’m sure some commissioning parents do build one but nonetheless, much easier to give up babies you’ve never even laid eyes on.

There must be something more to this, if the commissioning mother genuinely gave no shits surely she can get some kind of legal agreement drawn up that leaves all the responsibility with dad? Although to my mind, she should be responsible for paying child support, same as other absentee parents.

Disgusting.

Also interesting how the tables have turned. A generation ago, it was rich Americans adopting Chinese babies. Now it's wealthy Chinese commissioning American surrogates. In both cases, it's female who are harmed. Surprise surprise.

Based on her career a s that not one but two women commissioned to have babies for this couple, I'm guessing that this is a straight up case of 'social surrogacy' - where infertility is not the issue, it is the inconvenience of pregnancy that this women wanted to avoid.

Of course she also avoided risk, pain and time off work, though it's still unclear that her eggs were used. As commissioning parents in the US I don't think you have the same restrictions as in U.K. where you need to have one of you genetically related to the child in order to apply for a parental order which grants legal parental responsibility and a new birth certificate is issued.

In the US you own what you pay for so the reason why she is named on the BCs could be because of that.

Also, 2 babies by two women? The only reason I can come up with was she/they wanted twins but a Dr persuaded them to reduce risk of multiple pregnancy and hie two women to 'spread the load'.

An unbelievable cavalier, consumer-like attitude and one that is common in commercial surrogacy arrangements as far as I can tell.

Another surrogacy story from China which makes a point about the importance of a birth certificate.

Surrogate born Chinese girl without birth certificate - mother is blamed www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4135089-Surrogate-born-Chinese-girl-without-birth-certificate-mother-is-blamed

They will be US citizens: I don't know whether he'd be eligible to stay there because of that. I did read an article a while ago about how many Chinese people are now buying babies from the US (and that is what surrogacy is) rather than cheaper places such as the Ukraine because US born babies come with a US passport and the advantages that has.

Just this week I've seen a crowdfunder for an Israeli gay couple to raise in excess of $100k to buy a baby from Columbia. If they fly the surrogate mother to give birth in the US they get a US passport for the baby.

Also a I saw a story of a lesbian couple using their sperm donor baby to get one half of the couple legal status as the mother (she didn't carry and give birth to the child) as she was German she didn't have citizenship. The court overturned the government decision though she may not be granted citizenship still, it seemed like a 'anchor' type case though she may still be extradited as they were not married.

I would ban it completely- in all circumstances. It's the ultimate "gimme, gimme, gimme

Is it? I know someone in more or less the situation suggested above: married woman who can't have a baby for medical reasons, her sister in law is surrogate out of pure altruism using the first woman's egg, no money is changing hands. Everyone who knows the people concerned are delighted for them. I can't see that any gimme, gimme, gimme is involved.

As for the suggestion that it's damaging to the baby: are we saying that every child who is adopted, every child whose mother dies at birth, is inevitably dreadfully damaged? Or shall we acknowledge that in many, many cases, the child grows up fine. Sure, I know that doesn't always lead to happy endings, but then plenty of people who stay with their birth mother end up damaged also.

How awful, especially to imagine what those babies will think when they grow up and learn about how they came to be. I hope they find a loving home.
I'm also quite surprised that the couple went ahead to have two surrogacies at the same time, wouldn't it be a bit overwhelming to have two babies at once out of choice?

her sister in law is surrogate out of pure altruism using the first woman's egg, no money is changing hands. Everyone who knows the people concerned are delighted for them. I can't see that any gimme, gimme, gimme is involved.

Familial relationships often break down post surrogacy, it creates all kinds of fissures. Having a baby for an in law seems a particularly hairy situation to me.
Worse case scenario the surrogate mother dies due to a pregnancy/birth complication, leaving her own children motherless and her husband unable to look at the new niece/nephew or speak to his sister. It’s incredibly selfish to risk another woman’s health to solve your own infertility. Pregnancies with donor eggs are higher risk too.

What if the baby has an illness or special needs? Can you guarantee that the commissioning mother won’t assign blame to her sister in law? Or the sister in law struggle with feelings of guilt? What if the brother and sister in laws marriage breaks down mid pregnancy and the surrogate mother finds herself handing over a baby she had assumed she would see grow up, now that the sister in law is no longer part of the bigger family unit?

Even a simple disagreement over parenting styles can end up causing massive divisions when surrogacy was part of the picture.

As for the suggestion that it's damaging to the baby: are we saying that every child who is adopted, every child whose mother dies at birth, is inevitably dreadfully damaged? Or shall we acknowledge that in many, many cases, the child grows up fine. Sure, I know that doesn't always lead to happy endings, but then plenty of people who stay with their birth mother end up damaged also.

A baby who becomes separated from their mother due to tragic circumstances is not comparable to a baby who is commissioned with the intent of removing the child at birth. We don’t even do that to puppies.

Worse case scenario the surrogate mother dies due to a pregnancy/birth complication, leaving her own children motherless and her husband unable to look at the new niece/nephew or speak to his sister. It’s incredibly selfish to risk another woman’s health to solve your own infertility. Pregnancies with donor eggs are higher risk too.

And non-surrogate mothers also die for the same reason. Does that mean that it's selfish to risk having a second or third child? In the case in question the relative very much wants to do this, and has taken medical advice.

What if the baby has an illness or special needs? Can you guarantee that the commissioning mother won’t assign blame to her sister in law

Without going into personal details, yes.

Or the sister in law struggle with feelings of guilt? What if the brother and sister in laws marriage breaks down mid pregnancy and the surrogate mother finds herself handing over a baby she had assumed she would see grow up, now that the sister in law is no longer part of the bigger family unit?

Honestly, if everyone went in for this amount of catastrophising the human race would die out. Sure, happy endings are not guaranteed in every case. But that applies also to normal births.

I used to be ok with altruistic surrogacy because I could imagine carrying a niece or nephew for my sister...and breast feeding and partially raising infant niece or nephew seemed to be a kind way to wean the baby from the birth mother and give the baby love and bonding. That loving, shared experience with a trusted sister seemed healthy. (In this imagined scenario, I also didn't even consider the father as having any impact/opinion on my body or decisions of the pregnancy...which is awfully naive, isn't it?)

But after digging into it more, and reading stories of exploitation and the idea of "fertility equality" which is just about commodifying women's bodies, I've changed my mind about surrogacy. It seems that in the majority of cases, the woman is doing it out of family pressures, financial need or possibly her own mental illness. My above scenario suddenly seemed like a rare utopian version, not reality.

The Chinese government mouthpieces aren't mincing words!

“Surrogacy is clearly banned in our country, as its disregard to life makes one’s blood boil,” China Central Television, the state broadcaster, said. “No law or ethics will allow it.”
and
Beijing News, a state-run newspaper, argued that the case was a persuasive argument against legalising surrogacy. “When life is associated with trade and money it flouts humanistic ethics,” one commentator wrote. (both from Times article)

@MedusasBrandyButter

The Chinese government mouthpieces aren't mincing words!

“Surrogacy is clearly banned in our country, as its disregard to life makes one’s blood boil,” China Central Television, the state broadcaster, said. “No law or ethics will allow it.”
and
Beijing News, a state-run newspaper, argued that the case was a persuasive argument against legalising surrogacy. “When life is associated with trade and money it flouts humanistic ethics,” one commentator wrote. (both from Times article)

That's the law but people flout the law. It happens here, it happens in America and probably nearly everywhere There are always ways around laws.