A horrific example of how badly wrong surrogacy can go

[everythingcrossed]

The Times is reporting on a well-know Chinese actress, Zheng Shuang, who commissioned two women in the States to have babies for her and her boyfriend. When they split up, she was recorded ranting that it was unfair that she couldn't have the babies aborted or put up for adoption. (This recording has led to her losing a Prada contract which was the hook for the story.)

In the recording Zheng allegedly expressed frustration that her two surrogates in the United States could not legally abort their pregnancies in the third trimester. Her parents are said to have told her to give the children up for adoption.

The children, who were born in December 2019 and January 2020 have, according to the report, been left in the States because Zheng won't take responsibility for them.

It's an absolutely horrifying portrait of entitlement and lack of conscience. What struck me in particular was the more general observation in the piece that It is common for wealthy Chinese couples and single people to have children through surrogate mothers in other countries such as Russia and Ukraine. Several US states are also popular. Within China the issue is highly contentious, especially because the black market has led to many disputes between clients and surrogates.

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As for the suggestion that it's damaging to the baby: are we saying that every child who is adopted, every child whose mother dies at birth, is inevitably dreadfully damaged? Or shall we acknowledge that in many, many cases, the child grows up fine.

When you adopt a child, you will take part in thorough training and screening over a period of time, that begins with making it very clear that adoption is rooted in loss. This is no one's first choice as a means of parenthood; not the child's and not the adoptive parents'. Grief is a part of it, and the child has a history and experiences that may well result in the child having needs and struggles they may need long term or even life long support with. Yes, trauma and attachment issues are seen in babies removed at birth. That many adoptive children and parents have the resilience and family/parenting skills to have happy, successful lives is a wonderful testament to them; many would tell you it didn't just happen by itself. Parents are very thoroughly vetted before a decision is made as to whether they will be able to offer a child the adoptive home needed, there are intensive interviews and background checks and home checks. It's an invasive and tough process. For a reason. And there's no financial incentive. There's also increasing amounts of research into the experiences and reports of adult adoptees who talk about how hard it is to grow up away from birth parents even in the best of adoptive circumstances, the resentment of being chosen to fill a hole in someone else's life - it's not all sunshine and roses and often very hard because they both very much love their adoptive families and aren't supposed to have these angry, resentful, hurtful feelings.

This is about intentionally creating a child in that situation of loss; not about helping an existing child who has been unlucky and needs a family. This is intentionally throwing the dice on the child not being seriously harmed by separation from their birth mother.

This is totally disregarding how the human being created feels about being created for the desire of an adult, how they may feel about their birth mother's history and exploitation, how they may feel about having a designated role in their commissioning family's life they were created to fill for them.

This is about parents who will never be vetted or interviewed or trained, or even given basic background checks. And will not be primed and checked that they are clear that the child coming into this situation is not their blank slate but a person with a history that they may well need help with.

It's absolutely not the same.

MichelleofzeResistance

I was coming back to this thread to reply to that post, but you articulated it far better than I could ! My experience (previous job working with vulnerable families, including LAC and PLAC) definitely supports what you have said.

I've read a couple of the articles. She sounds appalling. I feel sorry for the babies, the surrogates and also the father. It sounds like he desperately wants to care for them but can't take them home to China with him unless she co operates.

Well said MichelleofzeResistance.
Surrogacy should be banned outright, everywhere in my opinion.

That's the law but people flout the law. It happens here, it happens in America and probably nearly everywhere There are always ways around laws.

Of course. However, that doesn't mean the law should be changed to allow it, which is the context for much of the discussion on this board.

I just found it interesting that surrogacy can be opposed for reasons laid out very eloquently above by MichelleofzeResistance and others, and for probably much less touchy-feely reasons by the Chinese state.

I’ve reported both your posts @IndieRo

Had it occurred to you that you are posting these comments to the very people you are talking about?

Even a simple disagreement over parenting styles can end up causing massive divisions when surrogacy was part of the picture.

An interesting point and an example that lends itself...

Auntie is the surrogate mother to a child for her brother (via egg donor) her sister in law acts weirdly towards her the entire time, from the acceptance of her offer to the delivery. Child is born and loved by parents, Auntie plays normal Auntie role though she personally feels closer to this child than other nieces and nephews, she suppresses this and grows distant from her brother and sister in law.

Years pass, all is well, SIL develops new interest in religion, I won't say which but it impacts her parenting style. She is strict with the child at family gatherings. Auntie/ Surrogate mother feels awful that the child she gave birth to is, what she considered to be, unfairly punished. She described the physical reaction she had to this as a 'burning'.

She raises it with her own mother and her brother, the brother does nothing, doesn't want to know, her mother/the grandmother arranges family events without inviting her.

I've heard of several rifts in close-knit families when one has a child for another member.

Everything from jealousy that the surrogate's pregnant to resenting them being in contact with the child they gave birth to.

Report me for stating the obvious.. OK

For being a racist.

Exactly Pandora the weird behaviour of the SIL case was assumed to be based on jealousy.

The thing is these situations aren't discussed or at least we don't hear about them in the media, it's all fluffy and lovely, nothing on the hormones and injections, the blood, risk and recovery of the birth, and certainly nothing on the emotional side for the SM. (SM's are expected to, and often achieve, a full on disassociation and consider themselves an oven for the commissioning parents bun, whether money changes hands or not.)

But outside of the media agenda these stories are everywhere and often they are buried and no one talks about it. Least of all the children who, like children who are adopted, might grow up feeling like something is off/missing but can't quite explain it.

Though children who are adopted usually (hopefully) are told, and surrogate-born children are too, the reality is it relies on the commissioning parents to tell them the circumstances of their birth and who their genetic and biological parents are.

If the truth is buried early on how hard it must be to face it 12, 14, 18, 20 years later.

I also want to stress that there will always be adoption...but not because there is a demand for it, but because there will always be children who for one reason or another can not be raised by their biological parents.

The concept that there is a "demand for surrogacy" and a "demand for fertility equality" just shows how this is. commodification of women and babies.

This is an example of a family surrogacy that was far from successful. The grandmother, who was appalled when she found out about it, managed to hold the family together and prevent a full breakdown of relationships.

As PandorasMailbox suggested, jealousy of the surrogate mother for being pregnant was a feature. In fact I have seen this mentioned several times, I think it's similar to mothers who are jealous of the nanny when their child runs to the nanny for comfort when they fall over. But a lot more complicated I am sure, especially when the surrogate mother is a relation doing you a massive favour for which you are meant to feel great gratitude.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/apr/27/secret-diary-of-a-surrogate-mother

That article is very troubling. Obviously we only have the surrogate's perspective but even so.

www.huffpost.com/entry/surrogacy-sherri-shepherd_b_9152642

people.com/celebrity/sherri-shepherd-wins-huge-victory-in-child-support-case-ex-lamar-sally/

This has been a big story here in the US.

Sherri Shepherd is a award winning actor, TV host and personality. Her and her then husband commissioned a surrogate, and an egg donor, also using the husbands genetic material, to make their child.

Then the couple separated, and Sherri refused to be the Mom in this dynamic. The little boy is maybe 4 or 5 yrs old now, cared solely by the father, the situation is a disgrace.

How Sherri continues to get work, I don’t know, but somehow she’s managed to skate past the whole thing. She even does the “poor me” thing.

However, I know she pays maintenance, but this poor, poor boy, caught up in the middle of such heartless, transactional behaviour.

That Sherry story is absolutely appalling. I can't help thinking of the lies the birth mother and the egg mother were likely told...something along the lines of typical egg donation advertising (it's legal in the US) that they were "giving the gift of a family to loving parents" or "making a family whole." If they had known how horribly their little boy would would have been treated, I highly doubt they'd have made such a sacrifice to their bodies.

I cannot imagine how a woman can be so callous about a child she commissioned. But maybe that’s the point, I’ve never commissioned a child. I needed ivf to have dd, didn’t succeed the first time.... The diary of a surrogate is also awful. I couldn’t imagine giving my body and babies I’d grown for people, who already have 2 children.

This is a horrific case.

However, surrogacy can be the exchange of a much wanted baby for a life changing amount of money.

I think the vociferously anti surrogacy theme on here is driven by a complete lack of understanding as to how 20k, say, can be a life changing amount of money for some people.

It is all very well to say that ‘bodies are not for sale’, but that generally comes from a position of comfort.

Again, one can argue for a more egalitarian view of society where no one would want or need to be a surrogate, but that is not the status quo. I would wager a lot on this thread would change their mind if offered, say, £10 million to be a surrogate.

It needs to be a well regulated business with laws protecting the well being of the surrogate.

I have to be honest, I don't understand how someone can be an egg donor. I could never do it. The resulting children are biologically yours and you are giving them to people you know nothing about. You don't even know for certain that you are giving them to a loving couple who can't have kids of their own. Even if you did know that, there are no checks on parents needing donor eggs in the same way that there are checks on adoptive parents. You could be sending your child into an abusive family, for all you know.

I think either egg donors are under huge emotional pressure (discount IVF) or are young and haven't carefully thought about the implications.

I don't know how sperm donors can do it either, but I think they tend to be young men without much thought to the future. Also, I suppose a sperm donor can assume there is more likely to be a mother on the scene who intends to bear and raise a child, whereas a donor egg may end up with a surrogate mother for commissioning parents.

I can more easily understand the desire to be a surrogate mother for a close friend or relative than I can an egg donor.

The resulting children are biologically yours and you are giving them to people you know nothing about.

That's what kills me too...I can't imagine either of my two daughters somewhere in the world and I had no impact on their care or family....you wouldn't even know how many children you had had!! At least with adoption, a mother might have the option of an open adoption, choosing birth parents or writing letters, knowing the agency screened the parents.

Of course, I get why surrogate moms do it for the money and don't doubt I could easily have found myself in the same situation if my life had been different. I don't have any fight with them...I just want to protect surrogate moms from being abused.

The resulting children are biologically yours and you are giving them to people you know nothing about.

I meant to highlight @EdgeOfACoin's sentence

Again, one can argue for a more egalitarian view of society where no one would want or need to be a surrogate, but that is not the status quo. I would wager a lot on this thread would change their mind if offered, say, £10 million to be a surrogate.

This is not a pro surrogacy argument at all - it makes the total opposite point!

You could say the same thing about a lot of crimes, a 10m bribe would move a lot of people’s moral lines, but that’s not a reason to change the law and make harmful actions regulated instead of outlawed.

Well yes, some people would kill for a 'life changing amount of money' but that doesn't mean we should strictly regulate the assassin industry!