Grateful child draws a picture to thank surgeon for mastectomy **MNHQ content warning for upsetting image*

[Haworthia]

Tweeted by Janice Turner and Keira Bell.

How upsetting is this?

Although I will say that 18 seems too young. The brain doesn't finish maturing until something like mid twenties I think?

Perhaps I'm just old fashioned. But I will say this, I was absolutely desperate for breasts as a teen being flat chested. I remember being jealous a girl in my year got them on the NHS.
Anyway, a couple of decades of sports, trying to fit into wet suits and sexual harassment make me really glad I was unable to get that surgery at 16+.
What I am saying is, like anyone under 25 I was a bit of an idiot and had no idea about consequences.
I also do tend to think people wanting surgery actually is a symptom of poor self esteem, which is why they're never done.

How about we give people, teens etc. Some real mental health support, coupled with less objectifying in the media instead of quick fix surgery.

On the drawing, in early years drawings are the biggest indicator of mental ability. That drawing looks as though it's been done by the average 10 -11 year old. I don't think this is a coincidence that that's the age before puberty for most children.

@Aspiringmatriarch

Although I will say that 18 seems too young. The brain doesn't finish maturing until something like mid twenties I think?

Yeah most people haven't developed an understanding of long term consequences until 25.

Well yeah, in this case maybe there's a strong case for saying that person is not mentally developed and perhaps never will be fully. Which is a tragedy if so.
It's interesting what you say about drawings as an indicator of certain things. I'm not an expert by any means, but I can imagine if it was on something like a criminology programme where they consult people and ask them to analyse, they'd have an absolute field day with that one. Not to mention the doctor proudly posting it on Instagram.

And this is where we are in the world.

Terrifying and desperately sad.

Having had a quick look at his vile instagram account I was horrified to see how many other accounts there are 'celebrating' top surgery. It's completely fucked up. And the fact that so many posts are getting deleted on this thread shows how desperate some people are to silence women pointing out how awful this 'trend' is.

Aspiring yes I think you've summed it up, it's the total removal of something healthy (and let's remember they are there to feed potential future offspring so have yet to serve their purpose) which makes me feel so angry.

And that surgeon, he's clearly got a barely concealed spectacular god complex.

Meant to say that I still disagree with this 100%. There can NEVER be enough justification to remove healthy body parts, otherwise where does it stop?

It's the logical conclusion of the push to no longer classify gender dysphoria as a mental health condition. Instead of compassionate psychological interventions which help young people to reconcile themselves with the bodies they have we have doctors getting rich from carrying out physical interventions like removing perfectly health breasts from you women and pharmaceutical companies benefiting from rising use of puberty blockers. All the while persuading often very troubled young people that experimental drug treatment, life altering operations and lifelong dependence on both is the healthier option. It's a goulish image in so many ways.

Buffster- I lean towards thinking there’s something wrong with unnecessary surgery also. Of any variety. General anaesthetic always carries a risk of death. Any surgery requiring that comes with a tone of other risks- risk of chronic pain, risk of pain killer addiction etc.

These are small risks in terms of percentages, but it’s one thing weighing up risk against risk of not doing it, and risk if it’s unnecessary. I get it if the person we are talking about is middle aged and spent decades in therapy and can’t find any other way to cope, but I’ve always felt there’s something not right about how ok we are with plastic surgery as a society. The number of people I’ve known who had surgery who didn’t even know that anaesthesia comes with a risk of death is astounding. They sign the forms saying they know this but it doesn’t register. It maybe a tiny risk but fuck I know I would not be ok with being that mother who died because I wanted a face lift or tummy tuck or even my pre pregnancy breasts back or whatever, I’m not sold young adults wanting top surgery have any less superficial reasons than that. There will always be a percentage who become the unlikely percentage who die from anaesthetic or end up with long term problems, I don’t get why society sees that as a none risk for surgery of any type that isn’t life saving or essential to having a basic quality of life. I know that phrase is open to interpretation, I know plenty claim they had no quality of life and would have killed themselves if they didn’t have the boob job/tummy tuck or whichever surgery they felt was worth the risk. I just don’t buy that’s true for the huge percentage of people who choose surgery. I wouldn’t judge individuals, I think this is a problem of society, how self conscious media makes people, especially women, but the I find the lack of concern around these risks terrifying.

Yes hecates. Exactly

Money and no morals

@SqueakyCarrots I agree with that tbh. It shouldn't be happening, and it's a sign of a sick society that people choose those kinds of risks for themselves. I do think it's a personal choice though, if you're an adult. I mean, I wouldn't make plastic surgery illegal. But I think it shouldn't be too easy to access. If you're willing to go through the trauma of surgery, then you should be willing to have more than a perfunctory discussion about what led to that decision.

Oops been deleted. Probably due to my comparison. But I will say that consent vulnerable minors is not true consent. Perhaps one day we will realise that.

I’m guessing anyone opting for surgery like say donating a kidney would get some very serious councilling from the nhs first, a real explanation of the risks and the reality of recovery and risk of problems afterwards. If the nhs didn’t address this with seriousness required then they’d be leaving themselves open to complaints and lawsuits surely. This must be especially true if the person is a younger adult, they doctors involved would no doubt take considerable time to ensure they really grasp the consequences of their choice, that they are making the choice of their own free will and not being influenced in any way, that they are mentally and emotionally capable of making the decision.

But if a twenty something pays for a boob job, or repeated ones it’s nothing. Or opts for nhs top surgery. I can’t see the same care applied at all and that’s negligent.

That surgeon needs to be asked the question, what are you solving?

Why does that woman/girl have gender dysphoria? What is the cause?

Because unless he can explain exactly why he is surgically removing her breasts, he should not be anywhere near her.

I'm going to get flamed on here, but I'd like to disagree with a pp, and point out that not everyone who wants a mastectomy wants to be a boy. I'm 40's and ever since they appeared, I've wanted them gone. The way I see it, I'd be a lot happier and physically much more comfortable without them. Being honest, I hate them, and they cause a lot of distress(now that they are growing due to peri, I am in even more distress) . Nothing else really bothers me about having this body. I see that children shouldn't be allowed to do it. But I don't see why I shouldn't. If I had the means. Which I don't. I wouldn't remove a leg. But these are useless.

I don't agree with puberty blockers for children or anything like that but I don't think performing top surgery on a consenting adult who has had counselling and lived as their chosen gender for a few years is anything to be vilified.

Of course, but we know this is being done as part of an affirmative model of care because we've accepted that this is not a mental health condition and simply diversity in action.

@LoveMySituation if your breasts cause you pain and you think surgery would help I don't see the problem. We're talking about largely cosmetic surgery and not for practical reasons but for appearance.

Came back to add- I don’t think equating choosing surgery with adults taking risks is a fair description. It’s not just about the risk any adult is opting for, the doctors have that first do no harm oath, if their patients are having unnecessary surgery with no real understanding of the risks and no real grasp of the consequences then that’s harm isn’t it?

And why why why the cutesy "top surgery" reference? It's a mastectomy, breast removal. I find it creepy that it's being dressed up in childlike language. When I had orthopaedic surgery the doctor didn't ask me if I wanted him to "mend my hurty arm".....

Urgh. I can't unsee that. How disturbing. Poor kid.

so, this doctor has an actual address?
a building that could be located?
he clearly is proud of his work, I wonder if a wider audience would agree?

Love- if you are in physical pain that’s a very different issue from unnecessary surgery. However even then it’s not necessarily ‘these are useless/a pain, get rid’ because the reality of that type of surgery is you could very easily be left with a different kind of life long pain, maybe not, but might be much worse. As an adult (not just a legal adult who really doesn’t have any grasp of consequences yet) you are obviously capable of weighing up all the risks and making that choice yourself, but it’s a doctor’s responsibility to ensure any patient really understands the risks they are facing. Is the problem so debilitating it’s worth risking death, is the pain so bad life long chronic pain is lesser risk, is it so unbearable an opiate addiction is lesser risk (I’m not asking you, it’s none of my business, but I’m saying doctors need to seriously address these questions). Likely tones of other risks I’d know nothing about. There are absolutely plenty who choose surgery who these risks are all much less than the risk of living with whatever physical or psychological discomfort. The percentages are tiny when it comes to death, and still pretty small with other risks, and I wouldn’t rule out making those kind of choices myself if I needed too (reconstruction after mastectomy would be an obvious one I think I’d consider). But I just don’t buy that even half of all the people having plastic surgeries or top surgery etc have doctors who are really addressing these questions with the same care they should be obligated to do so by their profession.