Grateful child draws a picture to thank surgeon for mastectomy **MNHQ content warning for upsetting image*

[Haworthia]

Tweeted by Janice Turner and Keira Bell.

How upsetting is this?

Unfortunately there are lots of people who aren't adults being led merrily down a path that leads to this. Right now conversations are happening between kids and therapists talking about how their life will be better after surgery. Young women are breast binding until this can happen.

The term too surgery is a funny one, it sounds much less sinister than breast removal - this isn't just a tweak or a nip and tuck it's cutting things off entirely and it has consequences.

This is a private clinic in Marylebone, London and it was legal to perform the operation on under 18s at the time the child did the drawing.

@Icantreachthepretzels

To be fair I'm 35 and that's about my level of art competency (if anything I'm not that good) but what strikes me is 'drawing a picture to say thank you' is an incredibly juvenile thing to do. Teenagers don't draw pictures to say thank you (especially if they're not particularly good artists) ... not unless they have some kind of condition that might leave them considerably less mature than their peers.

Absolutely this. It's a strange thing overall.

I'd honestly think it was a hoax if it wasn't posted by a private surgeon and I'm astonished that anyone could consider this a positive thing.

This is a private clinic in Marylebone, London and it was legal to perform the operation on under 18s at the time the child did the drawing.

Thanks for the clarification @WootMoggie. Like I said, the drawing was posted in Sept 2018.

I’m also wondering whether mastectomy would even be considered “gender reassignment surgery”, or does that term only cover genital surgery? Just thinking aloud, I don’t know the answer. But to me gender reassignment is a term exclusively applied to so-called bottom surgery, not the act of removing breasts.

Until there is proof that puberty blockers do not also block mental maturation and emotional development, then there is still the possibility, if not the likelihood, that despite someone being of legal age, you are still talking about a person who may have the mental age of a 12-year-old.

I mean that's the whole point isn't it. That you block them maturing.

Where is the evidence, or even common sense, that says you can pick and choose which parts you are inhibiting?

This actually made me cry. I knew l, just knew I should not have clicked this link. There are no words.

@LizFlowers

OldCrone: Because she thinks she's a boy.

In the US girls as young as 13 who are confused about their 'gender identity' have had mastectomies.
...
Ah, I get it. It's not here in the UK.

Gross.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear in that post. The clinic is in the UK. I know that girls as young as 13 have had mastectomies in the US, but I'm not sure of the situation here.

From WootMoggie's post it look as though it is legal in the UK as well, (or at least it was in 2018).

It makes it worse it's so close to home, I was stunned this is a doctor in London.

If puberty blockers do what they say on the tin, surely 5 years of puberty blocking makes you an adult at 23, not 18? (Assuming best case where it is just a "pause").

If the child hasn't gone through puberty, I think it makes them still a child at 23, and possibly forever.

Is there evidence that puberty blockers in childhood followed by opposite sex hormones produces the same maturation of the brain as the natural processes at the appropriate time?

Wowzers!

I agree - the fact that this person has drawn a picture to say thank you suggests either very young or a cognitive developmental issue? It's just not something you would really do is it?

Does anyone know if 'top surgery' mastectomies result in similar problems to surgery for breast cancer? I had a lumpectomy over 3 years ago and the movement in that arm is still not quite as good as my other arm and I am really active, so I can imagine a full mastectomy also comes with problems. Or is that movement problem more to do with removal of lymph nodes?

Yes, it seems obvious that if 'puberty blockers' block physical development, then they also block the very important mental development that happens during puberty. Which means, as Datun says, that you could have adults who actually have a mental age of a pre-teen.

I mean, what the fuck?

I was talking to my dd yesterday about periods and she said to me, you know you can take tablets (puberty blockers) now so you don't get periods? She has sensory issues and hates blood, i could see a gleam of hope in her eye and it made me so sad. There are two girls in her class and they seem to talk about nothing else only trans and binary stuff. They are only 10 and they are obsessed with this stuff. I am so sick of it.

Is there evidence that puberty blockers in childhood followed by opposite sex hormones produces the same maturation of the brain as the natural processes at the appropriate time?

I don't believe proper research has been done. Performing such research on humans would be unethical.

There has been research on sheep, which I believe was referenced in the Keira Bell case. Thread on the subject by Malcolm Clark:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1317539496464875520.html

With this they could test the ability of the sheep to remember their way through the maze to get the reward of food. Even after puberty blockers were stopped and obvious physical effects had 'reversed'...the memory of the sheep was impaired.

What the researchers also found was that GnRA seeped into unlikely places and organs througout the young animals' bodies. The idea that GnRH is some discrete magic bullet that only switches off the growth of secondary sex characteristics is absurd.

The drawing is quite good actually and I suspect that the person would've been over 18.

Frankly though it's fucking disturbing and heartbreaking that someone should hate themselves so much. I feel for them I really do.

Not so much the dude making big bucks from it.

FFS! And here's me saving like mad to get a symmetry mastectomy as my trust won't pay for it, despite having a flat side and a 42DD on the other, along with constant back pain from the unbalanced weight. Maybe I should transition?

Baby it's messed up isn't it?

And actually, thinking back to comparisons to a nose job or tummy tuck - yes they have in common that part of the body causing distress to the individual on a psychological level but I can't articulate why it's way, way worse. I just know it is > not helpful I know

There really really needs to be some decent research into the effects of puberty blockers. There's no way that picture is the work of a psychologically normal adult (sorry if that sounds offensive but it's just not).

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz I think it's the difference between a nose job and having your healthy nose entirely removed tbh. Like, a 16 year old (say) having a boob job wouldn't be great, but this is so much worse than that.
I should say I have no problem with someone doing this as an actual mature adult if they understand all the potential consequences etc. But to do it to someone in any way mentally vulnerable is just really upsetting.

Flapjak, not sure why your post was deleted but you are not wrong, there are surgeons who view it as 'just' cosmetic surgery.
See eg the Canadian guys who pose with buckets of breast tissue

thepostmillennial.com/young-canadians-are-being-sold-gender-affirming-top-surgery-on-instagram/

'[McEvenue] says, “Believe it or not, when a patient wanted top surgery five or ten years ago, they had to go to a psychiatrist to get diagnosed.” (Here he grins, presumably at the craziness of the very idea that a woman wanting to lop her breasts off might benefit from sorting through her motives with a mental health expert). He continues, “If a woman comes to me for breast augmentation, I don’t make her go to a psychiatrist. I say, okay, are you an adult? Do you understand the surgery?” (laughter, applause. This audience really really wants to believe that top surgery on teenage girls is no big deal.)'

I have no problem with someone doing this as an actual mature adult if they understand all the potential consequences
Is it ok that I think lopping off healthy body parts should only be done if there's an acute medical need. I
Eg Hereditary breast cancer or if someone's breasts are so large after diet that they cause acute pain?

Or is that just terribly transphobic of me?

I mean, I don't agree, but I you're entitled to your opinion.