Graham Norton “as if there are trans armies coming over the hills”

[Lifeaintalwaysempty]

like Graham Norton, this disappointed me in the Times today. I find it so patronising with regards those who have a stake in the debate on protecting sex based rights, and worryingly he is justifying the TRA aggression on the basis that this is how you get progress???

@StillAHarpie that's infuriating! And discouraging.

It would be interesting if he would define what he means by 'trans'. And then define what rights he believes trans rights activists should aggressively promote. And at whose expense.

[quote sandandso]@Floisme IME it's especially the "decent men"! They wouldn't hurt a fly, so they can't imagine that anyone else would, and spend more energy being worried about being "tarred with the same brush" as the few baddies than on opening their eyes and ears to the things that happen to women and girls every day.[/quote]
Yes good point.

A couple of years ago GN had a trans author on his Saturday morning show and both of them were wide eyed innocents “why is this so controversial, isn’t it all a bit silly, why can’t people just be nice etc”
I seriously doubt GN has given it and further thought. Which is a shame. I like GN and he does seem savvy.

@HermioneWeasley

Well I for one am shocked that a gay man couldn’t care less about the safety and dignity of women, or about safeguarding children. Shocked.

I’m double shocked.

Surely he will have formed his views on transwomen from when he was much younger and probably active in the Lgb community when those identifying as trans would have been a tiny minority and probably very vulnerable in many cases.
Seems like he is very ignorant to the vast changes in the definition of trans (pushed by Stonewall).

And weirdly he probably is right ( once we get back to removing those transwomen with AGP and other fetishes, stop teen girls running away from womenhood by identifying as transmen and the rest of the blue haired wine brigade). there are probably a tiny minority of vulnerable transgender people who need our support.

But of course, this isn't what he is saying unless he is truly ignorant, which I doubt

@HecatesCats

"That's how you shift things to the middle ground" - of forcing people to agree that grown men are "girls"?!

That 'middle ground' would be more No Woman's Land than No Man's Land.

How disappointing. I enjoyed his interview with JKR and that was the show where two nobodies hardly anyone had heard of noisily refused to be on the show, because JKR was on it. He certainly knows a bit about the background, how could he not.

Any group looking for equality and progress will only get there if there is an extremist vanguard of activists who silence, de-platform, fire, harass, intimidate, threaten and be violent toward women for the greater good.

There finished the sentence for you Graham.

Not equality though is it?

Terra nullis. Women and their spaces are terra nullis. That philosopher really nailed it. Just empty, pointless space until it's doing something sufficiently obviously beneficial to males that they can see the point of it.

Thanks for confirming that you really do believe I'm just subhuman and a bit of violence will get me back in my box ok Graham. What a nice bloke you are.

The thing is... from the POV of women the 'middle ground' has already been ceded, in the form of the GRA. It allowed for the legal fiction of 'sex change'.

From the POV of children, the 'middle ground' of 'watchful waiting' had also been ceded by the medical establishment. The middle ground of supporting children to be whatever 'gender' they wanted without lying and pretending they could actually change sex was ceded by schools.

Women have already had their rights compromised. Now, the extremists are laying claim to everything, and disallowing women from their own spaces and language.

''And I know there's some aggression, but any group looking for equality and progress will only get there if there's an extremist vanguard, and thats how you shift things to the middle ground''.

When Graham talks about aggression he means people shouting at women on Twitter, and when I talk about aggression I'm talking about Karen White repeatedly raping a women on a women's psychiatric ward. Then going on to sexually assault several women in a women's prison.

Aggression isnt going to get me to make way though, its going to make me stand my ground, because its one of the reasons we need single sex spaces in the first place.

''So they make up all sorts of nonsense about excluding transwomen being like whites excluding blacks; but they're all enraged for the same reason. We're excluding males, and they don't want us to have the right to do that.''
archive.is/n6J56

You would hope that an influential and high profile gay man who knows and acknowledges how things are different now for gay men than when he was younger, would have more sympathy for, and show more support towards , the gay women who are being trashed and marginalised by the Stonewall TRAs , rather than saying that it is fine for a “tiny, very tiny” number to advocate violence to make their point, even if one of their points is that gay women should be grateful if trans women want to have sex with them.

Clearly he has thrown his hat into the ring to support the menz. As menz do.

The thing is... from the POV of women the 'middle ground' has already been ceded, in the form of the GRA
Exactly. The GRA was the compromise. The fact that some people are now pushing for more is really not a good advert for the middle way.

Surely he will have formed his views on transwomen from when he was much younger and probably active in the Lgb community...

He's in the media, unless he has only been gazing at his own reflection for the last few years, he knows that it isn't about a few drag queens in the toilets of a gay club.

He will at least know the abuse jkr has endured, even if he is uninterested in what she said.

One of these people I could never see why he got on TV in the first place. AlwAys found him lightweight and irritating

The issue is even wider than suggested. In the interest of being woke institutions are making the decision to remove women’s single sex ( snd in some cases men’s single sex spaces) and replacing them with mixed sex supposedly gender neutral facilities which adversely affect women and girls. The vast majority of people hate them. The vast majority of parents would hate their daughter changing in a room in front of males. Or sharing dorms and tents with people of the other sex . Most people would think it indecent for a person of the other sex to see them naked if they weren’t in a sexual relationship. Most people would see that third spaces which are mixed sex solve a number of needs that are not met now: I’m thinking family loos for parents and carers of young children or opposite Dec disable people. Frankly I avoid gyms as I loath changing rooms anyway even if female only as I do not feel comfortable undressing in front of strangers ... or even worse work colleagues when I had the firms gym membership. I don’t think I’m alone in that either

I’m disappointed he shows so little understanding. Perhaps he should spend less time chatting and more time listening. Starting with JKR.

The GRA was the compromise. The fact that some people are now pushing for more is really not a good advert for the middle way.

Bears resharing...

Yes - GN - BBC front man advocating aggression against women and girls - in plain site.

There is no middle ground.

Can you imagine if he said this about any other group? Cancellation would be called for - but for this he gets a pat on the back.

Yes agree with those saying he has definitely put his hat in the ring in terms of where he stands. He knows what he is saying, he could have steered well clear as so many celebrities have.
He made no attempt to even pretend to see both sides in my view, he is very clearly telling us that women have been making an unnecessary fuss, and the relentless aggression they’ve experienced, from TRA (and what feels like pretty much everyone else) is necessary in order to achieve progress.
Those saying the concessions have already been made- so true. But when does it stop.

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

Can you imagine if he said this about any other group? Cancellation would be called for - but for this he gets a pat on the back.

Exactly. Female presenters on the BBC have been sidelined, eased out, sacked, silenced (delete as appropriate) for the affrontary to suggest that it is biologically impossible to change sex. Yet it’s ok for a man to say that a bit of violence is to be expected and accepted when it comes to protecting TRAs.