Autistic girls seeking answers ‘are seizing on sex change’ Times Article

[Igneococcus]

Just seen this in the Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6a2ab6b2-529f-11eb-b5cf-1d37166171d9?shareToken=30103997eddad28e5067e7f74e8bc877

@MagentaDoesNotExist yes yes yes. Thank you - you sum up perfectly my concerns too.

I'm glad its finally being discussed.

Many of us have been deleted for trying to talk about things that shoukd be obvious.

I dont have realky know anything about autism but even to me it seems pretty obvious that when they talk about clothes etc no-one seems to think that maybe just maybe the frilly dresses were just itchy/irritating and that created sensory issues which is why kids opted for jogging bottoms and a polo shirt instead.

Of course autistic girls will struggle with ther body development, im.sure the consistent feeling of a binder is easier to cope with than the feeling of bras as they stop fitting properly etc

Kids with a condition that means they struggle with change starts struggling with their own body changes.. its a bloody no brainer surely?

I think we will be horrified when the testimony is published. Cannot believe we did this to our children

The brilliance of taking this case to the High Court and winning is that before, medical practitioners could go along with the transing of children because that was established practice, they could hide behind the medical establishment, and say they were simply going along with the best information available, that the treatments were reversible and adverse consquences were not an issue.

Now, unless things spring back to where they were before, any (E&W so far) medical practitioner knows that they are likely to be personally responsible for transing a child, and to be considered to have been aware of the hugely significant consequences. The big difference is that now unless they can be sure there will be no desistance or even regret, they know they might end up being personally held to account in a court for any resultant harm. That will concentrate minds.

I hope Graham Norton, who will have inevitably sent out a minion to buy the ST so he can revel in his magazine cover story, spares a moment to read this.

'It's been conflated into this thing.' Indeed, Graham. A fucking dangerous thing that's harming a generation of vulnerable girls.

@TrashedWarrior

It basically confirms what many of us have been saying for years now.

Re seeking advice online, influence of YouTube etc.

This couldn't have come quicker.

Keira Bell and Mother of child we don't know's hard work will have such a huge impact on all of this for years to come. Thank you to them both.

Hopefully.

Yep. It's astonishing that it took a judicial review though.

Government ministers were asked to launch an inquiry into this years ago and their response was to ask the Equalities Office (!) to put it out to tender.

But I do not understand what "gender identity" even means?

If means personality. "What's changed?" you might ask. It's that with the rise of social media and other things, one's personality now has to conform to a checklist where some of the checks get you more social capital points.

Emily Weir talking about this problem at the Mound in Edinburgh
Starts at 32.00
m.youtube.com/watch?v=FcjjsM_eTyo&feature=youtu.be

consistent feeling of a binder is easier to cope with than the feeling of bras as they stop fitting properly etc

Many people and children with autism like deep pressure; it relives some of the anxiety or helps with proprioception if they're hypermobile (often are.) we use bear hugs at work with some asd pupils; really don't look much different to a binder.

Seems everything thaT is known about autism and/or child development goes out the window.

I mean what are people afraid of? If they are wrong and it's not a normal part of the development or sign of autism then go ahead and let someone rule it out amd theh get on with the rest? Isn't that what drz and clinicians do? Investigate potential causes of something and rule them out one by one? Why would that be a problem? Why is it a step that needs to be skipped when It comes to this?

Mmmmm . . . if in doubt, follow the 💰 ?

I agree.

Interesting - my mid-teens nephew 'came out' as trans male recently. My mum and I have long suspected he's on the spectrum, though his parents seemed not to want to consider it. At the moment he does not want to change how he presents, which is still feminine, or have any medical intervention - just name and pronouns. He's quite single minded and I suspect will stick to not changing presentation, I will be interested to see how his indentity develops in the longer run.

I have a trans-male cousin who transitioned decades ago, and totally believe some people are trans and need our support and empathy. But I also think there is something up with the rocketing number of young girls identifying as trans male, that's not just because 'they found the language to express who they are' are it needs questioning. IMO, the vast, vast majority of young people in this position will desist before doing any damage to themselves and it is a bit of panic to assume legions of girls are being permanently harmed, but certainly questions must be asked and should be allowed to be asked.

People are saying that querying affirmative treatment is 'wanting conversion therapy', but might it also be argued that 'always affirm' is a 'conversion therapy' of applying the wrong solution (transitioning) to the wrong problem (gender atypical or otherwise unconventional girls seeking to make sense of themselves, being uncomfortable with their bodies like many adolescent girls, overt or implicit fear of living as a woman in a world that is shitty to women)?

I'm confused by the Comments to the article. They took even longer to appear than usual, so presumably they have all been approved by the moderator.

Yet since they've been approved and published, so many have been deleted. For many, the deletion message says "This post violated our policy." Did the moderator think they were ok, but were overruled when complaints came in?

God, that article is an absolute jaw-dropper. I can't believe the Tavistock would appeal when there is a report like that to contest.

Thanks for sharing

@everythingcrossed

God, that article is an absolute jaw-dropper. I can't believe the Tavistock would appeal when there is a report like that to contest.

If the appeal is granted it will be very interesting to hear what the Tavistock says.

When i was 19 i was very unhappy with being a girl. I hated it. Said i never wanted kids. Wanted to look like the more androgynous women of the time (Justine Frischman and Louise Wener) but being short and with big boobs that was never going to happen.

I then split up with my boyfriend who was one of my flatmates as he was doing some amateur dramatic attention seeking.

I end up turning to 'self control' which was essentially seeing how long i could go without eating. I got down to 6stone and eating once every three days. Then started drinking alone without food.

At this point i did go fuck this isn't good. And moved back home commuting to uni (2hrs each way) 3 times a week.

Im fairly sure i have some level of autism going on (i think my posting style may hint at this!)

I do thank fuck im not that age in 2021.

I eventually got over it all bit by bit. But it took a long time. I think i probably finally killed it stone cold when i had DS at 37. That and finally having the attitude that hell no i dont fit in and i probably never will but stop fucking trying to cos its ok not to.

I am so glad that the evidence is finally coming out to support what many of us know all too well.

What does bother me though is how it didn't really hit me at full pelt until i was 19. And of a legal age to do this without my parents. Was i capable of making decisions of that nature at that point? Hell no.

@AbsintheFriends

I hope Graham Norton, who will have inevitably sent out a minion to buy the ST so he can revel in his magazine cover story, spares a moment to read this.

'It's been conflated into this thing.' Indeed, Graham. A fucking dangerous thing that's harming a generation of vulnerable girls.

Once you take out all the autist girls and girls harmed by trauma whats left of the trans narrative?

A bunch of cross dressing middle aged people who started life as male and then transition.

And it becomes a lot harder to dismiss this 'identity' which is unique to males as a fetish rather than being 'born in the wrong body' .

To be 'born in the wrong body' narrative HAS to have females doing it otherwise its unique to one sex. And thats a bit problenatic for people trying to argue sex doesn't exist.

Thanks for the like Molesmokes.

And thank you for sharing your experience Magenta. My daughter sounds just like you as a kid!

It really was a big step for me posting on this thread and I was nervous to see the responses.

@MazDazzle

Thanks for the like Molesmokes.

And thank you for sharing your experience Magenta. My daughter sounds just like you as a kid!

It really was a big step for me posting on this thread and I was nervous to see the responses.

I am so pleased that me speaking about my experience helps, I was worried about doing so also. I am happy for you to PM me if you wanted to talk more privately about your daughter's experience.

This news is undoubtedly good news for vulnerable autistic girls and it is wonderful to see some logic and safeguarding applied to the situation.

@MazDazzle

Reading with interest.

My DD is 12 and has a diagnoses for Asperger’s. She has always been on the fringes socially and has never quite fitted in, if that make sense. I keep a close eye on her phone messages (she knows about this) as she has been subject to subtle bullying in the past and her perceived friendships are often toxic.

In a recent message to a friend, she came out as Bi. I’m completely fine with this, which I’m sure she knows as we are a very open, liberal family. However, I’m worried that she might be vulnerable to being sucked into the trans ideology (for want of a better word). She is a big Umbrella Academy fan and has followed Ellen/Elliot Page’s transition with interest. I have brought her up to believe that you do not have to conform to gender stereotypes.

I know there are many gender critical articles and websites, but they aren’t particularly child friendly. Are there any documentaries we could watch together? I have discussed the case of Keira Bell with her. Alternatively, since, in my experience, lesbians are not represented in mainstream media - can anyone recommend anything we could watch together? I don’t want her thinking that the only options are stereotypically straight, or trans.

I’ve tried google and most of my searches took me to pornhub .

There was a series I remember in 2005 called Sugar Rush that I think featured young women exploring lesbian sexuality. I cannot remember the details now though I am afraid. Unfortunately lesbians have been sidelined from society and media so much and all of this "gender" stuff now seems to be making that worse. I am sure others who are lesbians may have better suggestions.

If you don't mind me saying I think it's wonderful that you are being so supportive of your daughter to try to help her through all of this however she needs. You sound like a brilliant mother, and that is the anchor that will make all of the difference to a young woman with Asperger's. Teenage years are so confusing for everyone and with this added on top it is so hard, and she will be so grateful for what you are doing (even if it doesn't always seem like it right now, I imagine).

I've read another thing by Levine, mentioned in the article. He said v strongly that teachers should not be involved gender questioning teens. That really stood out.

@TrashedWarrior

I've read another thing by Levine, mentioned in the article. He said v strongly that teachers should not be involved gender questioning teens. That really stood out.

That sounds interesting - do you have a link please? I was shocked when I realised a while ago how far teachers are overstepping with these children.

An absolutely crazy situation when a parent canne told at parents evening (or not at all) that the school has taken it upon themselves to facilitate their child starting on the transition pathway.

I was horrified when a friend of mine who was involved in this very process with a child (she means well and obviously Stonewalled school policy supported it. My attempts to explain the issues failed, I didn’t have the information that I do now but did have a strong feeling that doing that was wrong.

When I asked her what steps she took with the child to determine that this was the right thing to do and justify the very serious issue of overriding the parents wishes and there was no answer.

So no real exploration with the child as to how serious they were, no real examination of alternatives or underlying causes for the distress, just affirmation and helping the child distance from the parents.

The sooner we can get Stonewall out of schools the better - I guess it will be a long process though as the training has already been done and the policies written.

There was a series I remember in 2005 called Sugar Rush that I think featured young women exploring lesbian sexuality.

That was by Julie Burchill. Those were the days!

Garden, I've attempted a link before, I can't do it.

I'm happy to email it but I understand the issues related to giving an email address, unless it's a burner.