Woman's Hour: What happened this morning?

[NonCisWoman]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9117995/Actress-refuses-appear-Womans-Hour-accusing-host-Emma-Barnett-degrading-comments.html

An actress refused to appear on Woman's Hour this morning after accusing host Emma Barnett of making 'degrading and vile' comments about her.

Kelechi Okafor was set to talk on the BBC Radio 4 show to discuss the #MeToo movement with new presenter Emma Barnett.

But as the programme was live on air, the Nigerian-British actress revealed she had come off the show, writing: 'Because what I've just had to witness is absolutely degrading and vile.'

Posting a video to Instagram, she said: 'I won't be going on Woman's Hour now. The host didn't realise her mic was on as she was talking s* about me to the producers.'

@LearnedResponse

If nauticant and justhadathought have sat through the events and discussions of the last year and that’s still their approach then nothing I can say is going to make any difference.

So argue with them: explain why they are wrong, don't take the no debate approach.

@nauticant

They're discussing the events in Washington yesterday and have on someone from the University of Sussex, Melissa Milewski (Lecturer in American History), whose line is: "We have to look at the responsibility white women have for this."

Yeah, there were so many women in that mob

I didn't listen today, but I read her interview in the Times and my first thought was that EB needs to be careful with her new direction on WH so it's not just current affairs with a tenuous "women do it too" link.

For me it boils down to one point:
Sarah Green, head of EVAW, was also listening to EB’s comments (as were LS and any other guests).

She said they were dreadful, completely unacceptable and she empathised with KO.

From that I am happy to accept Emma’s language was awful, unprofessional and insulting.

I am equally able to acknowledge KO’s previous comments are anti-Semitic and repugnant.

Woman’s Hour invited KO to talk about MeToo, not to defend her views on anti Semitism. If they haven’t done due diligence, that’s on them.

JKR would have been able to defend herself as she hasn't said anything that is remotely comparable to KO's antisemitic comments.

I'm still intrigued as to what LS has said about BLM that would have needed challenging? Can someone be explicit as to what LS said? It's all rather vague.

I've heard LS speak against BLM politics before which isn't surprising since some of their stated goals are to dismantle capitalism and state structures. Surely that is something we can all have an opinion on.

I will make up my mind when I know exactly what was said, and not a minute before.

If it was so awful, why are none of them prepared to divulge what she actually said?

It's pathetic.

The transatlantic slave trade has a unique position in its scale, causes and impact in the modern world and IMO to instantly respond with glib comparisons to slavery in the ancient world is just one step up from “all lives matter”ing. But if anyone is still doing this after the months of discussion we’ve had them I’m not going to change their mind given that I’ve got a very limited amount of time to spare on this. However I wanted to stand up to say that as a long time lurker on FWR I think it’s a very depressing thing to see.

On EB I just found it thought provoking that on a thread linking BLM and her family’s awful history, she finds herself an unwitting metaphor for Europe and the USA, the passive beneficiary of the past crimes of others.

I’m off to work now.

Right. So no receipts about what Barnett said which was so awful that a self acknowledged anti-Semite stormed off the programme then?

Interestingly neither KO or Sarah Green have cited anything that was said. Perhaps they aren't doing so because it related to KO's antisemitic comments and they don't want to give those oxygen. Who knows?

Llama, would you link to or give more detail about LS's views on BLM? I have acquaintances who chose to live just outside Portland because they wanted to live somewhere progressive and were supporters of BLM. Now they're not sure about BLM and they're moving to New York. One of them isn't white. Just because you have questions about BLM doesn't mean you're a racist.

@LearnedResponse

The transatlantic slave trade has a unique position in its scale, causes and impact in the modern world and IMO to instantly respond with glib comparisons to slavery in the ancient world is just one step up from “all lives matter”ing. But if anyone is still doing this after the months of discussion we’ve had them I’m not going to change their mind given that I’ve got a very limited amount of time to spare on this. However I wanted to stand up to say that as a long time lurker on FWR I think it’s a very depressing thing to see.

On EB I just found it thought provoking that on a thread linking BLM and her family’s awful history, she finds herself an unwitting metaphor for Europe and the USA, the passive beneficiary of the past crimes of others.

I’m off to work now.

EB is also carrying the stigma associated with her father's crime. By defining her solely as a beneficiary you write off the stigma and possibly a lot of other shit she has to deal with.

@RozWatching

JKR would have been able to defend herself as she hasn't said anything that is remotely comparable to KO's antisemitic comments.

Exactly. And the sooner WH has JKR on the programme the better.

It's shameful that they've not had her on YET to discuss all the rape and death threats for starters..

TBH, I can't imagine JK making the kind of vague, unsubstantiated twitter statement that KO has.

Lllama I think it's important to know exactly what was said and we don't currently.

JKR has been asked about her comments in interview since she made them. You would expect her to be asked about them because they're controversial, it's what journalists do, they hold people to account for what they've said. If you place yourself in the public eye expect to take account for your actions. JKR knows that by posting a blog she is drawing attention to a particular issue and what she has said will follow her around and she will be asked to justify her words. KO should know that by posting her comments on a public platform and doubling down on them that they will follow her around.

The way the situation was handled, however, was unprofessional and inappropriate. Conversations about guests' backgrounds, their previous views and how that might be relevant are appropriate, but this was clearly handled badly.

If nauticant and justhadathought have sat through the events and discussions of the last year and that’s still their approach then nothing I can say is going to make any difference

This assumption that " we are still struggling with the implications of slavery" in itself quite a sweeping generalisation, based on the false assumption that people are unaware of these sorts of historic events and practices.What this sort of statement seems to demand is uncritical allegiance to a particular sentiment. As if to question is synonymous with ignorance or denial.

So argue with them: explain why they are wrong, don't take the no debate approach

Precisely! Many have grown tired of this no debate/conformity to group think that seems to be the current mode. Especially on this board.

Llama, I think my friends currently packing to move to New York would say that one outcome of BLM is that racism is worse, and that's one of the reasons they are moving. There has been a polarisation of opinion and the Portland riots have done immense damage even among those who were sympathetic to BLM. I'll have to look more closely at the other examples of LS's racism you cite, but I no longer take someone's assertion that they're offended / have suffered literal violence as proof that someone else is racist/ sexist or has been offensive.

FWIW, if JKR was invited on to speak about MeToo then I think it would be completely relevant to ask her about the comments she's made about women's rights and transgender people. These are entirely related issues.

I have to say that I am really surprised that some people are claiming that it's up for debate whether or not KO's comments are anti-Semitic or not. If those comments aren't anti-Semitic then what is?!

As for the BLM thing, you can question whether the movement has improved race relations or not but the obvious retort to that is "the aim of BLM was never about improving race relations, it was about fighting against injustice towards black people". Some people (particularly racists and those with a lot of power) really won't like that. As the suffragettes found out, sometimes you have to piss a few people off.

I think we are all aware of the ways in which past practices have echoes which are still deeply embedded centuries later. This is not the case just for the mass enslavement of African peoples, though ( & especially in the U.S) but for the oppressions and injustices experienced by many groups and demographics.

Llama is it also possible that EB's stronger than appropriate reaction happened because she is Jewish herself and was deeply offended? Rather than her reaction being an racist response? This is why I think it's really important to know exactly what was said before passing judgement.