Woman's Hour: What happened this morning?

[NonCisWoman]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9117995/Actress-refuses-appear-Womans-Hour-accusing-host-Emma-Barnett-degrading-comments.html

An actress refused to appear on Woman's Hour this morning after accusing host Emma Barnett of making 'degrading and vile' comments about her.

Kelechi Okafor was set to talk on the BBC Radio 4 show to discuss the #MeToo movement with new presenter Emma Barnett.

But as the programme was live on air, the Nigerian-British actress revealed she had come off the show, writing: 'Because what I've just had to witness is absolutely degrading and vile.'

Posting a video to Instagram, she said: 'I won't be going on Woman's Hour now. The host didn't realise her mic was on as she was talking s* about me to the producers.'

Maybe KO denied being kicked off TOTP, which would a correct denial.

"How dare she accuse me of being kicked off TOTP for anti-Semitism when the true story was that I went on social media to support someone kicked off TOTP for anti-Semitism!"

Given the choice I'd really not have made a big thing about this. However, in the podcast KO glosses over the facts and suggests that TOTP is a purely random thing, unconnected to her, and uses it to suggest that EB was just coming out with all kinds of untrue things.

I have to say, my private speculations about what KO might have overheard after KO's second statement were much coarser and far more varied.

Perhaps MN has hardened me to obscene language.

I would also be terribly unnerved to be allowed into a zoom room too early (which sounds more likely to have been the issue than KO's remark about the mic) and hear my prospective interviewer say all that. It should never have happened.

But how is this evidence that EB can't tell the difference between black people? It seems like evidence she'd been unaware of the drama prior to that morning and she was getting a distorted picture from the tweets that were coming in and her own hasty on-the-spot googling.

Quite possibly some of the listeners can't tell the difference between Yates and KO... But I think it's clear that if EB herself had previously had KO down as "person kicked off TotP for anti-semitism", KO's appearance would have been cancelled before that morning.

To me the key take away is that before the programme I didn't know of the existence of KO or that she has a history for anti-Semitism for which she has not apologised nor assumed responsibility. I think KO making this a social media drama has been a real mistake, she got headpats from a small group of supporters while a much larger group now knows of her history of anti-Semitism.

Agreed.

In the process of collating KO's full twitter statement, I naturally saw some of the replies to her, where people took the opportunity to post twitter receipts of KO being rude about Rosa Doherty a couple of years back. Rosa Doherty is the journalist for the Jewish Chronicle, who tried to approach KO privately about her anti-semitic remarks on the podcast. This is something I'd never have known about, if it wasn't for KO's own decisions.

The Streisand Effect hits again.

It's kind of inevitable that no one comes out of this looking good.

Anita Rani is announced as co-host on Woman's Hour:

twitter.com/bbcpress/status/1348918157583507457

Definitely needed since Emma Barnett so far is unable to resist turning the programme into The Emma Barnett Show where you tune in to listen to hard-hitting political interviews.

I like Anita Rani. I think I’ll listen on her days and give Emma’s a swerve. I really hope it does not just become a politics show and full of angry guests.

NC here. As a Jewish woman I have to say this incident made me incredibly depressed. When I read comments like those written and said by KO they hurt, deeply. Racism is racism. Inevitably I end up on Twitter seeing if anyone shows empathy for that, or if it ignored, or justified, or if the antisemitism is lightly acknowledged but quickly passed over to move the debate on to much more "important" issues.

So I am really appreciative of those on here who have shown this empathy. Thank you.

It hurts when I see EVAW or Chi Onwurah denounce how KO was treated, but not her antisemitic remarks. And in the antiracism circles I am part of, zero tolerance never really extends to those who make antisemitic comments, (unless coming from the right or Nazis). Analysing the ways WH, the BBC & EB disrespected KO has been much more pertinent than any reflection on why and how someone can claim to be antiracist but still be antisemitic?

I will NEVER stop reflecting on how I can support black women, or on how KOs treatment IS reflective of an all too sad pattern of how black women are treated. But FFS Jews are tired. Hatred is rising and at times it feels like this is surrounding us. And it doesn't matter how successful Jews are collectively. In the past that never saved us from mass murder or expulsion and therefore rightly or wrongly we feel vulnerable no matter who says antisemitic things about us. Most conversations I am having these days with other Jewish women is one of total despair and a feeling that when it comes down to it there are few allies. I know this is far from the usual feminism discussion but I needed to get it off my chest.

Why is Emma Barnett being criticised for calling out anti Semitism?

@FreshFreesias

Why is Emma Barnett being criticised for calling out anti Semitism?

Is she?

centreisland

I think this might be one of the most worrying aspects of the grip that Identity Politics has on The Left.

Big lessons from history are being studiously ignored in favour of nitpicking about whether particular ethnic groups and nationalities are more or less black or white “adjacent” and so more or less deserving of “oppression points”. It is all horribly divisive and dangerous.

That gets me on to something I've been thinking about. Toy with switching the protagonists round. If it had been KO who had the Woman's Hour role, and she'd been overheard swearing after finding out her next guest had a past history of racist comments (of the same severity as the anti-semitic quotes), how would people react?

Would people expect KO to remain totally calm in the same way that some people on twitter clearly thought EB should have?

Can you imagine telling a black presenter that she shouldn't have expressed any anger in private about racist remarks?

@centreisland totally totally relate. I believe we are essentially on our own and looking after ourselves.

There seems to be so much anti Semitism at the moment coming from some prominent black voices. And still people saying Labour under JC were not anti Semitic. I’m so so tired and BORED of it and am just concentrating on my own family and community now.

Poor research and an unprofessional situation with a presenter finding out just before going on air and herself not putting a lid on her feelings about it (which she should have done). KO has done a great job however of making sure her anti-Semitic comments are repeated and highlighted over and over in the public domain (and drawn attention to the fact that she has never apologised) which you'd think would make future opportunities like a R4 slot less likely.

[quote YouCanWorkItOut]@centreisland totally totally relate. I believe we are essentially on our own and looking after ourselves.

There seems to be so much anti Semitism at the moment coming from some prominent black voices. And still people saying Labour under JC were not anti Semitic. I’m so so tired and BORED of it and am just concentrating on my own family and community now.[/quote]
Is it just prominent black voices? When these abhorrent views are expressed by white folk, do you call it out as “prominent white voices”?

Which voices and actions over the decades have been most prominently anti-Semitic? You could count the number of so-called prominent black voices who are associated with anti Semitic views on one or at most both hands. Yet it is made to seem that this is a black issue?

Anti-semitism is a problem and a growing one. People of all nationality, race, and religious affiliation can and do hold anti Semitic views. There are many black Jews but that seems to be forgotten. There are more prominent white people sprouting anti Semitic views than black people. Stop making any semitism a black thing.

Onmyleft what I picked up from the post by centreisland was a specific focus on the present and some prominent black voices, which is very different to a suggestion that throughout history anti-semitism has been a “black thing”:

”There seems to be so much anti Semitism at the moment coming from some prominent black voices.”

I do not know if this a fair impression of the situation but it is very specific and presumably the “some” refers to particular individuals.

It may be about currently but that does not change the fact that even at present it cannot be described as or suggested that it is an issue that is predominantly a prominent black people thing.

There are more prominent white people that have expressed anti Semitic views yet the description of white prominent people isn’t used. Anti-semitism isn’t a black or prominent black people thing now or in the past. It is a societal issue that crosses racial lines.

I would also question the description black prominent people. I know of two black peoples who have been in the news about this and I had never heard of them before then.

There are black Jews, there are white Jews. As far as I’m aware there are more white prominent people who have been expressing anti Semitic views that so-called prominent black people. But this is not about keeping scores.

Let’s not turn this into a black vs Jews thing as it makes no sense. This supposes that we black Jews do not exist. Anti semitism is a societal problem.

@Onmyleft

It may be about currently but that does not change the fact that even at present it cannot be described as or suggested that it is an issue that is predominantly a prominent black people thing.

There are more prominent white people that have expressed anti Semitic views yet the description of white prominent people isn’t used. Anti-semitism isn’t a black or prominent black people thing now or in the past. It is a societal issue that crosses racial lines.

I would also question the description black prominent people. I know of two black peoples who have been in the news about this and I had never heard of them before then.

There are black Jews, there are white Jews. As far as I’m aware there are more white prominent people who have been expressing anti Semitic views that so-called prominent black people. But this is not about keeping scores.

Let’s not turn this into a black vs Jews thing as it makes no sense. This supposes that we black Jews do not exist. Anti semitism is a societal problem.

I completely agree.

One depressing thing about the current resurgence of anti-Semitism is that in certain progressive circles while lip service is given to anti-Semitism being bad, when it's done in some contexts or comes from some people, then it should be excused or at least ignored. That's the problem with KO and the response to her anti-Semitism.

Seems like KO didn't want to be asked about her previous support for anti-Semitic statements. So she did a flounce, and tried to turn it round on EB on social media.

EB is Jewish, so the anti-Semitic mob will round on her whatever she does.

You can also say that KO is black so the ant-black will round in her no matter.

The problem we should not lose sight of is that racism and anti semitism are alive and thriving. There are intersections between these two isms. They should not be played off against the other.

They should not be played off against the other.
But this is not the case here.

Just to be clear, my post did not make any connection between black voices and antisemitism. That came from a reply to my post. (And I agree with OnMyLeft! In my post i do say, despite me being extremely hurt by her racism, I also recognise that KO's treatment does reflect the sad pattern of how black women are treated).

What I would say is that IME there has been very little support or empathy for Jews in the antiracism circles I and other friends are part of. I don't think antisemitism is understood at all (unless neo-Nazis) and I don't feel there is much openness to building this understanding. In some cases these very circles have because "unsafe spaces" and I don't say that lightly. The psychological stress of experiencing a drip feed of racism and then being subjected to such dissonance from these circles is too much. When I have tried to express the hurt that is felt when either minor or major antisemitic incidents happen, responses have been at best qualified, if forthcoming at all. But mainly met with silence or depressing counter-attacks - But the Tories! Or Israel! You hate Corbyn. Sorry, there are bigger problems to focus on. Or at best "all forms of racism" when discussing specific antisemitism.This last one stings. As if there is no legitimacy in discussing what is specifically hurtful to Jews.

That's before we even get into the actual antisemitic things that have been said: a mild example "Everyone has reached peak Holocaust and you Jews really need to stop droning on about it". And that was from a 'good' lefty person who champions diversity and antiracism. Meanwhile the right use Jews as a political football. Allies feel so few and far between. The racism seems to be literally everywhere - left, right, conservative, progressing, young, old, every European country, white, black, Muslim, Christian, Latin America.. it is utterly depressing and as the child of Holocaust survivors my inherited panic button is screaming in my head to the point it affects my health.

@Onmyleft totally empathise with black Jews who are stuck in the middle of this shitshow and getting it twice over from all sides! Sending 💐

twitter.com/kelechnekoff/status/1351953152870903809?s=21

KO is calling for the CCTV to be released, so she's not backing down.

The BBC have claimed that Emma never swore.