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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Anyone that has this much power - there's money behind it."

100 replies

gardenbird48 · 18/12/2020 10:18

I mentioned it on the other thread but I think actually, having watched now, it answers so many questions and joins the dots. I have found this video a little mind-blowing in the clarity Jennifer provides in her description of the issues.

It describes the reach of the global corporations that are driving the transgender movement and why. This is being presented to us as a human rights movement but why would Goldman Sachs (and many huge corporations) be funding a 'human rights' movement?
This is not a grass roots movement - this is driven by large corporations. Human rights movements fight against the corporate/governing structures because they are the ones that do the damage.

She mentions that it feels like we are in an altered reality, which totally chimes with how I've been feeling - it's like we are in the Upside Down - changing basic human concepts, changing language and the meanings of words. Once we see what is happening we can't unsee it and it is permeating everything. I think this is partly why it is so difficult to explain to people because it involves challenging so many accepted norms in expectations of other people's and organisations behaviour and ethics.

Background: when the AIDS epidemic hit in the 80's, once the government got on board with actually helping AIDS victims, an NGO industry grew up around it which gave birth to certain medical/social organisations including the Arcus foundation.

These organisations have formed a large scale network and as Stonewall has found, once the LGB experience improved greatly with proper recognition of rights and equality, the need for activism around that group dropped off. The NGOs had effectively worked themselves out of a job and they needed to find 'another market' with potential.

It was a revelation to me to see that there is such a thing as the 'Sex Reassignment Surgery Market' which is treated by investors and analysts in the same way as any other commodity/service market like Beauty for example. Viewing it in this way answers so many questions for me and raises so many concerns. The size of this market has grown enormously in the last few years and is predicted to grow by at least 25% in the next few years www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/sex-reassignment-surgery-market with growth rates of over 25% predicted).

Social networks seem to be particularly effective in promoting the ideology to young people and obviously if schools and other trusted adults can be coerced persuaded to back up the online marketing which uses the oldest marketing trick in the book, playing on people's insecurities - you have quite a powerful recruitment tool.

The positive point she leaves us with is that we can all make a difference by organising, every tiny thing we do will help - get the message out there. Do something, do anything - twitter, fb, here etc. No self-respecting person will allow this to happen on their watch - this is damaging the children. So much of this is being done in the name of Diversity and Inclusion but it is the opposite of that - men taking women's places at work is reducing diversity and inclusion.

If you can spare a bit of time, even a few minutes at a time, this is hugely helpful.

OP posts:
mollscroll · 19/12/2020 21:17

What we all notice about the funders is that they are all men. Don’t really care about their ethnicity or religion. You’ve pointed out that one (or more) of them is Jewish. I’m not sure why that’s relevant. The fact that they are men is highly relevant.

jj1968 · 19/12/2020 21:19

@OldCrone

There are no specific 'trans' drugs. The most commonly used substances, such as estrogen, progesterone and testosterone, are naturally produced and as such cannot be patented and are very cheap.

I believe Lupron is the drug often used to block puberty in the US.

Has a generic version of Lupron Depot been approved?

No. There is currently no therapeutically equivalent version of Lupron Depot available in the United States.

www.drugs.com/availability/generic-lupron-depot.html#

jj making stuff up again. What a surprise.

Not made up, Lupron is used on a very small percentage of trans children for a couple of years in the US at which point they will likely go onto hormone treatments, which are the most commonly used drugs in trans healthcare. I didn't claim hormones were the only drugs used.
OldCrone · 19/12/2020 21:21

Because trans people exist, and in a world more accepting of non traditional genders and sexualities then things have slowly changed to accept and recognise them.

What's a non traditional gender?

There's no secret plots, just changing values as there ever was. The upcoming generations are not freaked out or scared by trans people like ours were when trans lives existed in the shadows as strange creatures to be feared, pitied or mocked.

Don't be ridiculous. I was about 12 or 13 when I heard about Jan Morris's 'sex change operation' (as the papers at the time reported it). I remember thinking it was a pretty weird thing to do but ultimately if that's what makes someone happy, why not?

It's only recently when they came for the kids that I started thinking something was off.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/12/2020 21:27

The report linked to at the start www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/sex-reassignment-surgery-market

States that while in 2019 the transgender market was worth a mere $319 million in 2026 it is forecast to be worth $1.5 billion. Also worth noting that this only applies to "sex-change" surgery - it does not include all the other potential sources of profit, such as pharma.

SpudulikaSlob · 19/12/2020 21:29

I agree, it's terrifying to think that children are basically being experimented on and paying for the privilege.

jj1968 · 19/12/2020 21:32

What's a non traditional gender?

Well traditional gender is gendered behaviour according to a person's physical sex, so I'll let you work out the rest yourself.

Don't be ridiculous. I was about 12 or 13 when I heard about Jan Morris's 'sex change operation' (as the papers at the time reported it). I remember thinking it was a pretty weird thing to do but ultimately if that's what makes someone happy, why not?

I grew up trans. I had gender dysphoria as a child. There was no information or knowledge about trans people annywhere beyond the odd shock horror or mocking tabloid story and gender conformity was socially policed with violence. So perhaps you were more enlightened, but the rest of society certainly wasn't.

It's only recently when they came for the kids that I started thinking something was off.

Nobody is coming for the kids. Trans children are seeking healthcare based on the recommendations of experts in the field.

fakenina · 19/12/2020 21:33

'What utter nonsense. Big pharma couldn't care less.'
and yet all those huge donations to trans'charities' seem to show otherwise.

'There are no specific 'trans' drugs. The most commonly used substances, such as estrogen, progesterone and testosterone, are naturally produced and as such cannot be patented and are very cheap.'
ahhahahaha, all chemicals are technically 'naturally occuring', they are certainly not all very cheep. Some HRT and PB are not cheep at all.

'The HRT and contraception markets are far bigger than the fraction of a percentage of trans people who might use hormones'
the use of HRT is declining, and contraception is a medicially driven necissity so you are not compairing like with like.

'This thread makes the GC movement sound like a bunch of conspiracy cranks.'
Fuck off with your gaslighting bs, women have a right to discuss and speculate on things that effect them. As the saying goes - Get over it.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/12/2020 21:36

This report (which I can't fully access)

finance.yahoo.com/news/gender-dysphoria-market-insight-epidemiology-160700063.html

Covers the gender dysphoria market as a whole, and states that the UK alone is currently worth nearly $20milion

"The market size of Gender Dysphoria is expected to increase at a significant CAGR during the study period (2017-2030). Among all the seven major markets, the United States accounted for the largest market size. Among EU5 countries, UK, in 2017, had the largest market size with USD 19.87 million, while France had the smallest market size of USD 3.74 million"

OldCrone · 19/12/2020 21:41

Well traditional gender is gendered behaviour according to a person's physical sex, so I'll let you work out the rest yourself.

So, let's see. If a girl in the UK likes football, she is going against the expected gendered behaviour for her sex. In the US, it's a boy who would be going against the expected gendered behaviour if he liked football (or soccer as they like to call it). What's this supposed to mean again?

jj1968 · 19/12/2020 21:50

@OldCrone

Well traditional gender is gendered behaviour according to a person's physical sex, so I'll let you work out the rest yourself.

So, let's see. If a girl in the UK likes football, she is going against the expected gendered behaviour for her sex. In the US, it's a boy who would be going against the expected gendered behaviour if he liked football (or soccer as they like to call it). What's this supposed to mean again?

If you start a thread about the nature of gender I'd be happy to contribute. This thread however is discussing whether the push for trans rights is a plot by billionaires and big pharma so I'd rather discuss that here.
jj1968 · 19/12/2020 21:55

Covers the gender dysphoria market as a whole, and states that the UK alone is currently worth nearly $20milion

Precisely, if the entire UK industry was just one company it would be called as a Small to Medium Enterprise, and one on the small side according the the EU definition. Not the kind of thing that gets billionaires excited.

JohnMcClane · 19/12/2020 21:57

@OldCrone

Well traditional gender is gendered behaviour according to a person's physical sex, so I'll let you work out the rest yourself.

So, let's see. If a girl in the UK likes football, she is going against the expected gendered behaviour for her sex. In the US, it's a boy who would be going against the expected gendered behaviour if he liked football (or soccer as they like to call it). What's this supposed to mean again?

It means nothing.

On holiday in France a few years ago we were having breakfast in our hotel and across the way another hotel was being built, we watched as the shift changed and the workmen embraced and kissed each other on the cheek as they swapped shifts, perfectly normal over there, wouldn't happen on a UK building site.

gardenbird48 · 19/12/2020 22:02

Not the kind of thing that gets billionaires excited

Are you in direct contact with any billionaires jj?

OP posts:
OldCrone · 19/12/2020 22:05

This thread however is discussing whether the push for trans rights is a plot by billionaires and big pharma so I'd rather discuss that here.

I think it's more about following the money.

For example, the Endocrine Society in the US now advocates for more treatment for 'trans' children. They recently revised their position statement about transgender health. The changes are mainly the addition of demands that 'trans healthcare' for children and adolescents should be covered by insurance, and how important it is to medicate children while they're young. (Their previous statement in 2017 didn't mention treatment for children at all.)

With most healthcare being paid for by insurance in the US, obviously whether or not a treatment is covered by insurance is important to healthcare providers. But why are they so invested in this? And particularly for children?

I suspect their motives are similar to those of the Webberleys. These people know a cash cow when they see one.

OldCrone · 19/12/2020 22:08

It means nothing.

Which was exactly my point. jj seems to be stuck in some alternate Victorian universe, where women are ladylike and decorative and men are manly and look after the delicate little women.

For the rest of us, the world moved on from that a long time ago.

jj1968 · 19/12/2020 22:14

With most healthcare being paid for by insurance in the US, obviously whether or not a treatment is covered by insurance is important to healthcare providers. But why are they so invested in this? And particularly for children?

Because it's partly their field. Endocrinology plays a big part in trans healthcare, as such you would expect them to have an opinion as a body of medical experts. The fact their opinion doesn't align with yours doesn't mean there is anything shady going on.

JohnMcClane · 19/12/2020 22:16

Absolutely agree @OldCrone

allmywhat · 19/12/2020 22:17

I can't claim to have met many billionaires, but my understanding is that investing in small markets that are growing exponentially is exactly the kind of thing that gets them excited.

jj1968 · 19/12/2020 22:18

@OldCrone

It means nothing.

Which was exactly my point. jj seems to be stuck in some alternate Victorian universe, where women are ladylike and decorative and men are manly and look after the delicate little women.

For the rest of us, the world moved on from that a long time ago.

And yet when I walk down the street I can immediately tell which gender 99.9% of people are performing. You seem to think we live in some alternative universe where gender had been abolished and patriarchy had fallen until the trans came along and messed eveything up. But like I said, it's a derail, far more interesting to hear people's opinions on the op. It's been very revealing so far.
OldCrone · 19/12/2020 22:22

And yet when I walk down the street I can immediately tell which gender 99.9% of people are performing.
Confused

OldCrone · 19/12/2020 22:22

How does one 'perform' a gender?

mollscroll · 19/12/2020 22:23

It’s a derail - unlike the accusations of antisemitism you saw fit to make?

OldCrone · 19/12/2020 22:26

The fact their opinion doesn't align with yours doesn't mean there is anything shady going on.

It will make them a lot of money though, won't it? Which was my point. Follow the money.

allmywhat · 19/12/2020 22:32

How does one 'perform' a gender?

Isn't it interesting. Because if jj is reading "gender performativity" off strangers walking down the street, then in the absence of any psychic powers or unusual levels of perspicacity on jj's part (a possibility I think it is safe to eliminate) - jj thinks gender is just clothes and hairstyles.

And why should we upend society and medicate children and compromise women's safety for clothes and hairstyles?

jj1968 · 19/12/2020 22:33

@allmywhat

I can't claim to have met many billionaires, but my understanding is that investing in small markets that are growing exponentially is exactly the kind of thing that gets them excited.
The figures from the Tavistock are levelling off. The market is no longer growing exponentially, and it is capped at the number of people who will want to seek trans healthcare. How many people on this thread, or even this forum, will want to seek trans healthcare?

And more importantly why would Soros, or Pritzker or Rothblatt care? None of them are in the pharmaceutical industry. There's no evidence they would profit from any massive increase in trans healthcare provision. They're just rich Jews, who give money to a wide range of causes they see as progressive, which makes them a target for both anti-semites and the conservative right.

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