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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Anyone that has this much power - there's money behind it."

100 replies

gardenbird48 · 18/12/2020 10:18

I mentioned it on the other thread but I think actually, having watched now, it answers so many questions and joins the dots. I have found this video a little mind-blowing in the clarity Jennifer provides in her description of the issues.

It describes the reach of the global corporations that are driving the transgender movement and why. This is being presented to us as a human rights movement but why would Goldman Sachs (and many huge corporations) be funding a 'human rights' movement?
This is not a grass roots movement - this is driven by large corporations. Human rights movements fight against the corporate/governing structures because they are the ones that do the damage.

She mentions that it feels like we are in an altered reality, which totally chimes with how I've been feeling - it's like we are in the Upside Down - changing basic human concepts, changing language and the meanings of words. Once we see what is happening we can't unsee it and it is permeating everything. I think this is partly why it is so difficult to explain to people because it involves challenging so many accepted norms in expectations of other people's and organisations behaviour and ethics.

Background: when the AIDS epidemic hit in the 80's, once the government got on board with actually helping AIDS victims, an NGO industry grew up around it which gave birth to certain medical/social organisations including the Arcus foundation.

These organisations have formed a large scale network and as Stonewall has found, once the LGB experience improved greatly with proper recognition of rights and equality, the need for activism around that group dropped off. The NGOs had effectively worked themselves out of a job and they needed to find 'another market' with potential.

It was a revelation to me to see that there is such a thing as the 'Sex Reassignment Surgery Market' which is treated by investors and analysts in the same way as any other commodity/service market like Beauty for example. Viewing it in this way answers so many questions for me and raises so many concerns. The size of this market has grown enormously in the last few years and is predicted to grow by at least 25% in the next few years www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/sex-reassignment-surgery-market with growth rates of over 25% predicted).

Social networks seem to be particularly effective in promoting the ideology to young people and obviously if schools and other trusted adults can be coerced persuaded to back up the online marketing which uses the oldest marketing trick in the book, playing on people's insecurities - you have quite a powerful recruitment tool.

The positive point she leaves us with is that we can all make a difference by organising, every tiny thing we do will help - get the message out there. Do something, do anything - twitter, fb, here etc. No self-respecting person will allow this to happen on their watch - this is damaging the children. So much of this is being done in the name of Diversity and Inclusion but it is the opposite of that - men taking women's places at work is reducing diversity and inclusion.

If you can spare a bit of time, even a few minutes at a time, this is hugely helpful.

OP posts:
Wanderingstars4238 · 19/12/2020 18:44

Toxic, power crazed men causing trouble again. The lunatics, as always, are running the asylum.

jj1968 · 19/12/2020 18:58

Replicated worldwide, the numbers of adults being in hock to pharmaceutical companies will be significant.

Dear me, you do know that pretty much everyone in a modern healthcare system is in hock to pharmaceutical companies don't you? What do you do when you've got a headache?

If you really think that drug company bosses are salivating because 160 kids in the UK got prescribed hormone blockers for a couple of years then you clearly have little understanding of just how big the industry is. This thread reads like the nonsense you see on conspiracy theory forums about big pharma plots to trick us all into vaccinations.

Trans rights have happened because trans people exist and fought for them and in a more accepting world made some headway. It's not some devious plot by Jewish billionaires to medicate the next generation, or create trans humans, or destroy Christian values - although the fact some people seem to think it is reveals an awful lot about how elements of the gender critical movement are both reactionary and harmful, not least to some of its most adherent followers.

andyoldlabour · 19/12/2020 19:01

jj1968

"Anti-semitism on full display here. Seems to be a recurring theme."

Wow, if that is anti-Semitism, then maybe me not having turkey at Christmas is anti-Semitism?
Please explain my "anti-Semitism" to me, I really cannot see it.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/12/2020 19:10

The point is that to claim big pharma and billionaires have orchestrated an elaborate global plot to 'trans' people to make money

I don't think there is some sinister plot where a bunch of pharma companies got together and said "let's invent trans". I do think that transgender drugs and surgery are a growing and potentially very lucrative market, especially for those individuals in at the start - look how much the Webberley's are making! Some people are always looking for the latest potential money making scheme and for some, this is it. With the added bonus that you get to look all fluffy and empathetic saving these suicidal children putting them onto a lifetime of drugs.

Stripesnomore · 19/12/2020 19:11

Mentioning George Soros doesn’t mean that people believe in a Conspiracy theory about Jewish people; that’s an over-reaction.

I don’t think that the money involved in medicalising gender non conformity is big enough to warrant a great deal of commercial funding of lobby groups. Trans is however a cause that allows politicians and companies to present themselves as progressive without ever having to deal with actual disadvantaged people.

gardenbird48 · 19/12/2020 19:39

interesting. Some Olympic level minimising from jj. I think we all know that this is a little more than 160 kids in the UK getting hormone blockers so why are you quite so exercised about this?

I guess it could be the religious angle - that totally hadn't occurred to me so I googled Martine Rothblatt and discovered that Martine is Jewish - I had no idea about that and tbh I really don't care - that has no bearing on my concerns for the children being damaged by this ideology.

Trans rights have happened because trans people exist and fought for them and in a more accepting world made some headway.

Hmm, I thought trans people were the most oppressed, murdered and abused group ever, so which is it - you can't have it both ways.

$390 million is the size of the Sex Reassignment Surgery market, the hormones will be separate and probably counted as part of the multi billion dollar HRT market, but surely you can see the benefit of creating a group of people who will need this medication for life?? Gosh, if I didn't think the unnecessary medication of children was so evil I would be buying shares.

There must be quite a few transgender people around by now, otherwise we wouldn't have many government departments, the CPS, the NHS, the police, schools, almost all political parties, Amnesty, NSPCC, Girl Guides, many major corporations all falling over themselves to ditch normal protocols from professional social behaviour (women not sitting in meetings flicking their hair and giggling girlishly) to safeguarding of children and removing single sex spaces which are required for the safety and dignity of women.

So surely, even with the most reluctant of eyes, you can see that to expand your HRT market with vast numbers of incautious children (there are 3500 secondary schools in the UK, with a number of schools reporting up to 20 kids in a year group identifying as trans so if this is typical, that is 70,000 kids just looking at 1 yr group. If that is typical across all yr groups (I don't believe it is but just to start playing around with some figures) = 350,000 kids (I think my maths is correct here - please verify someone if poss. - I have had a little cider)

Obviously many of those kids will not end up taking cross sex hormones but we need to be clear that with the recent focus on this and the unarguably growing numbers of children who are getting sucked into the ideology across the world this is a significant growth area.

Posit, the transperson on the other thread was of the impression that 90something% of transpeople were looking to have surgery/hormones etc so that would generate quite high numbers - the NHS estimate for transgender people in this country is 2 million I think. Whether that is correct, I couldn't say.

OP posts:
jj1968 · 19/12/2020 19:46

the NHS estimate for transgender people in this country is 2 million I think

You're just making things up. There is no NHS estimate for transgender people, and if there was it certainly wouldn't be 2 million.

jj1968 · 19/12/2020 19:49

I do think that transgender drugs and surgery are a growing and potentially very lucrative market, especially for those individuals in at the start - look how much the Webberley's are making! Some people are always looking for the latest potential money making scheme and for some, this is it.

A niche healthcare industry acting the same way all other niche healthcare industries do is very different to a global plot by Jewish billionaires and big pharma to trans the world.

OldCrone · 19/12/2020 19:54

You're just making things up.

Well, that seems to be what you do.

I did manage to find one site with a figure for the global aspirin market.

www.researchandmarkets.com/reports/5174351/global-aspirin-market-forecasts-from-2020-to

The global aspirin market is estimated to augment at a CAGR of 2.53% increasing from USD1.979 billion in 2019 to reach USD2.299 billion by the end of 2025.

Where did your figure of $900bn come from? A figure that is nearly 500 times the only one I can find quoted.

So you might like to start including links to back up your statements, because you seem to be the one making things up.

jj1968 · 19/12/2020 19:55

Mentioning George Soros doesn’t mean that people believe in a Conspiracy theory about Jewish people; that’s an over-reaction.

It's absurd. I very much doubt Soros even pays that much attention to who the Open Foundation gives money to, which includes incidentally many feminist projects. They donate to all kinds of different things, as do plenty of other foundations run by people of equal wealth. Yet it always comes back to Soros, and in the trans case Pritzker and Rothblatt, and what do they all have in common?

Perhaps the people quoting this stuff do not intend to be anti-semitic, but those propagating this kind of crap almost certainly do. The idea of rich Jews secretly orchestrating global trends and events is classic anti-semitism.

jj1968 · 19/12/2020 19:58

Where did your figure of $900bn come from? A figure that is nearly 500 times the only one I can find quoted.

You have my apologies, I mistyped and that should have said $900m.

Care to address the more substansive point? Do you believe the trans rights movement is a secret plot by billionaires and big pharma?

OldCrone · 19/12/2020 20:12

I mistyped and that should have said $900m.

Can you provide a source? That's less than half the figure I found. Did you just make it up?

OldCrone · 19/12/2020 20:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

jj1968 · 19/12/2020 20:37

@OldCrone

I mistyped and that should have said $900m.

Can you provide a source? That's less than half the figure I found. Did you just make it up?

No, I misread the link you quoted funnily enough.

Why do Ferring Pharmaceuticals give the LibDems so much money?

Because they oppose Brexit and are long time supporters of the party and have been donating to them since 2013 perhaps? Or because they somehow predicted in 2013 that the Lib Dems would one day support self ID for trans people and sweep to power and then immediately massively increase the number of children put on puberty blockers to the tens of thousands a year it would require for it to create even a blip in Ferring's balance sheet?

Is that what you think? Really?

allmywhat · 19/12/2020 20:49

No, I misread the link you quoted funnily enough.

Reading this thread start to finish is a trip.

Asked for a source: oh well different agencies have different numbers. Anyway..."

Told that the number they've "quoted" is two orders of magnitude out: oh whoops I left off a couple of zeros.

Told they're still off by a factor of two and asked again for their source: "Actually I mistyped from the source YOU found." No explanation of how 900billion is a plausible typo for 2 billion.

For fuck's actual sake. I hope this thread doesn't get deleted because I think it should be linked to any time jj quotes numbers at people in future.

Gncq · 19/12/2020 20:50

It's a junk argument anyway because you can't convince a young adolescent that they have a headache so they need to take aspirin.

You can however easily convince a gender non conforming young person that they're trans and need medical intervention when their bodies are perfectly healthy.

Aspirin treats pain. Puberty blockers cause physical damage.

OldCrone · 19/12/2020 20:52

Is that what you think? Really?

I don't know what to think. And I've yet to see an answer from the LibDems about it.

Why are the LibDems so invested in making medical patients out of healthy children?

Why does Lisa Nandy want to put male rapists in women's prisons?

Why do so many people in politics repeat the mantra 'Transwomen are women' every time they open their mouths to speak?

All these things are a mystery. I don't have the answers. But so many people seem to have lost their minds over this that nothing would surprise me as an explanation.

jj1968 · 19/12/2020 20:56

For fuck's actual sake. I hope this thread doesn't get deleted because I think it should be linked to any time jj quotes numbers at people in future.

For fucks actual sake, I said I made a mistake, it actually says USD1. 979 billion which I mistakenly read as 979 billion and rounded it down. But well done, you caught me out.

Care to address the actual argument? Do you think trans rights are a plot by Jewish billionaires and big pharma?

Thelnebriati · 19/12/2020 21:00

No one said that except you JJ.

Nearly two million Britons expected to question their gender, health boss warns NHS
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/04/nearly-two-million-britons-expected-question-gender-health-boss/

Its behind a paywall and I dont have a share token.

OldCrone · 19/12/2020 21:05

For fucks actual sake, I said I made a mistake, it actually says USD1. 979 billion which I mistakenly read as 979 billion and rounded it down.

Why wouldn't you post a link to that site if that was what you were quoting from? When I asked for a link all you said was: Different agencies tend to put out different estimates. It was left to me to find a site with the figure on it.

Bit odd to round down $979bn to $900bn. Most people would have said something like 'nearly $1 trillion', especially if they were trying to make the point that it was a large sum of money.

Admit it, you just made it up.

allmywhat · 19/12/2020 21:09

🤣🤣🤣

notyourhandmaid · 19/12/2020 21:10

Noting that something can and has been exploited by the pharmaceutical industry is not the same thing as suggesting they invented it.

I type this understanding that of course some posters here have no real interest in giving any women the benefit of the doubt, even on a space aimed at them, and are simply going to keep spouting their nonsense.

jj1968 · 19/12/2020 21:12

@OldCrone

Is that what you think? Really?

I don't know what to think. And I've yet to see an answer from the LibDems about it.

Why are the LibDems so invested in making medical patients out of healthy children?

Why does Lisa Nandy want to put male rapists in women's prisons?

Why do so many people in politics repeat the mantra 'Transwomen are women' every time they open their mouths to speak?

All these things are a mystery. I don't have the answers. But so many people seem to have lost their minds over this that nothing would surprise me as an explanation.

Because trans people exist, and in a world more accepting of non traditional genders and sexualities then things have slowly changed to accept and recognise them. There's no secret plots, just changing values as there ever was. The upcoming generations are not freaked out or scared by trans people like ours were when trans lives existed in the shadows as strange creatures to be feared, pitied or mocked. They go to school with them and see them on TV and they think they deserve to live freely and with dignity in their aquired gender. Perhaps that's difficult to understand. Many people felt the same way about lesbians and gays, but times change thankfully.

You know sometimes when people convince themselves that they are right and everyone else in the world has lost their minds they've often actually got things a bit back to front.

OldCrone · 19/12/2020 21:14

There are no specific 'trans' drugs. The most commonly used substances, such as estrogen, progesterone and testosterone, are naturally produced and as such cannot be patented and are very cheap.

I believe Lupron is the drug often used to block puberty in the US.

Has a generic version of Lupron Depot been approved?

No. There is currently no therapeutically equivalent version of Lupron Depot available in the United States.

www.drugs.com/availability/generic-lupron-depot.html#

jj making stuff up again. What a surprise.

jj1968 · 19/12/2020 21:16

Why wouldn't you post a link to that site if that was what you were quoting from? When I asked for a link all you said was: Different agencies tend to put out different estimates. It was left to me to find a site with the figure on it.

Yes you found the same site that I did on top of google. And i didn't immediately respond to your demand for links because I knew you would far rather get into an argument about a typo then respond to the conspiracy nonsense and anti-semitism on this thread. So carry on banging on about it, I'm sure you think you've scored a point and I'm sure anyone objective reading can see exactly why you're so keen to deflect away from the ridiculous claims made in the opening post.

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