Christingle becomes transphobic. Apparently.

[Defaultname]

Christingle, which I'd never heard of, meant a lot to this family until...

",,,as the queer and transgender father of a two-year-old, I visited the church’s website. I was hoping to find a message of inclusivity, something to reassure me that the welcome I had taken for granted my whole life still applied to the person I am and the family I have today. The “What we believe” sections were vague. So I tried a reverse approach, since it has the kind of graphic design and web presence that suggest affiliation to bigger, well-endowed networks. Google pointed me to a UK organisation called the Evangelical Alliance. I typed my postcode into its “Find a church” tool and the first result was our Christingle church.

In the EA’s news archive, I found a press release about the importance of rejecting Gender Recognition Act reform, a process that was aimed at making the lives of trans adults less bureaucratic. There were pieces about why “gay cakes” are a threat to free speech and then there was a video.

It started off very gently and compassionately, talking about “inclusion” and “understanding”. Just as I started to feel reassured, the presenter began describing “transgender” as “confused” and an “ideological movement”. He talked ominously about genitalia and so-called spectrums, and questioned whether, if a trans person were to call a church to ask about gender-neutral toilet provision, it might well be “a coordinated effort to catch the church out”. www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/dec/16/i-used-to-love-christingle-until-i-discovered-what-my-church-thought-of-trans-people

@highame

and now I am tingling

If you self-identify as binary (and it's the only way)) 'twon't last:

'When the Tingle Becomes a Chill'.

Makes me cross, across the country there are liberal, welcoming churches but they aren't likely to have flashy websites I'm afraid. 1/3 of our congregation approx are gay, 2 trans and there's a family (two men) who have a child by surrogate. Nobody bats an eyelid. Oh and the Dean of the cathedral is gay too. Avoid evangelical groups and you will be fine

Nobody bats an eyelid. Oh and the Dean of the cathedral is gay

Barchester it definitely ain’t.

Meanwhile.

Loads of mainstream religions exclude all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons.

RC? Sorry no women allowed in xyz. No abortion etc etc

Although it has to be said that in the UK the RC congregation is pretty liberal because it's, at least in my area, cultural rather than a matter of belief. That may have changed since I was young. (I'm RC, mostly Irish and Italian background people in the schools church etc. It was definitely a link to roots thing rather than any affiliation whatsoever with the stuff about abortion, homosexuality, women etc).

Stricter wings of Judaism and Christianity (other than RC) are not super hot on lots of stuff and round here we have extreme sects. Like Amish type stuff.

I don't get it. At all.
I thought evangelical Christians were well known for being. Um. Less tolerant. To put it mildly.

It seems very sheltered. TBH.

If you're not keen on mainstream religions you don't engage with them in your day to day life. Well as best you can.

If you want an organised religious thing you look around and find a church/ place of worship that fits.

Everyone knows this?

I don't know how up to date this is but Inclusive church has a list of churches that would be very welcoming to the writer of the article www.inclusive-church.org/

@bornatXmastobequiet

Nobody bats an eyelid. Oh and the Dean of the cathedral is gay

Barchester it definitely ain’t.

Where's Ronnie Barker when we need him? (Spoonerisms).

@NiceGerbil

Meanwhile.

Loads of mainstream religions exclude all sorts of people for all sorts of reasons.

RC? Sorry no women allowed in xyz. No abortion etc etc

Although it has to be said that in the UK the RC congregation is pretty liberal because it's, at least in my area, cultural rather than a matter of belief. That may have changed since I was young. (I'm RC, mostly Irish and Italian background people in the schools church etc. It was definitely a link to roots thing rather than any affiliation whatsoever with the stuff about abortion, homosexuality, women etc).

Stricter wings of Judaism and Christianity (other than RC) are not super hot on lots of stuff and round here we have extreme sects. Like Amish type stuff.

I don't get it. At all.
I thought evangelical Christians were well known for being. Um. Less tolerant. To put it mildly.

It seems very sheltered. TBH.

If you're not keen on mainstream religions you don't engage with them in your day to day life. Well as best you can.

If you want an organised religious thing you look around and find a church/ place of worship that fits.

Everyone knows this?

Or, as the thread on cults pointed out, you can always start your own tailormade religion.

The idea of starting your own thing/ getting your own funding/ spaces never seems to occur though in some areas.

I mean religions are easy to start, or cults if you have enough charisma.

And if existing mainstream religions need to change then starting with issues like historic child abuse cover ups, still protecting the men, rules that totally fuck things up for women, perpetuating patriarchal set ups in families, etc etc etc etc etc. Are quite serious issues.

Also thinking about it. Reading something on a website linked from somewhere etc. With Christianity of most flavours in the UK you can rock up, sit at the back, see what you make of it, in any old church/ congregation.

All in all. Yeah it's a bit silly really.

It's a little odd to judge a church, especially one you already sporadically attend, by a video hosted on the international website of the network.

Individual churches differ because they are shaped by the ethos and personality of the church leader/vicar/reverend and how that interacts with the community the church serves. If someone managing an official website uploads a video, that won't mean every single church leader downloads the message straight into their brains. The Archbishop of Canterbury could announce tonight that he had grave concerns about the colour turquoise. It wouldn't be reasonable to assume that my local vicar hated people who owned turquoise clothing or to write an article about how excluded I felt.

It's treating churches as if they're fast food franchises like Subway or Dominos. Churches, even churches within the same denomination, really aren't contractually obliged to have the same colour scheme, packaging, menu and cooking processes as every other branch!

Churches, even churches within the same denomination, really aren't contractually obliged to have the same colour scheme, packaging, menu and cooking processes as every other branch!

The Catholic Church of my youth had exactly this, colour schemes and all (vestments for different times of year). Obviously ritual identical everywhere. The franchise comparison is excellent.

Maybe next week Freddy will try his local mosque and start criticising that.

yes please try that Freddy then come and tell us how you get on

It occurs to me that the most telling part of Freddy’s story is that Freddy’s family continues to attend their local Christingle service without Freddy.

@cheeseismydownfall

The arrogance is utterly breathtaking.

Honestly, it reads like a meat-eater gatecrashing a meeting of the Vegan Society for the free booze and then having a tantrum because no-one will serve him a hamburger.

This is a perfect, perfect reading of the situation.

So this person has never once taken an interest in attending church until a random time in their adult life and fully expects to suddenly barge in and for the church to subscribe to their beliefs.

Just imagine being that self centred that you believe whoever you go every service, person and organisation has to match your views

Just for the record regular church going committed Christians don't know what Chrstingle is all about!

LouiseBelchersBunnyEars

"I’m also confused about what a ‘Christingle church’ is.

As far as I’m aware, it’s a ceremony, not a denomination of Christianity."

You are right, I took it to mean "I typed my postcode into its “Find a church” tool and the first result was our Christingle church."

The result was the church we used to go to for Christingle.

If anyone looks up a picture it looks like a Sputnik!

I will admit that I, as an agnostic, have gone to Church on Christmas Eve (and only then) quite often in the past decades. But I think, having lived though a Youth in a small town where Catholicism was an inescapable part of life, I‘ve earned it.

Obviously, I have done so fully aware of their teachings and where we disagree including with which of my life choices the Church will disagree. I don‘t understand what the author of this article expects from a church they want to visit for purely cultural reasons.

I got married in a church whilst atheist and i've never felt guilty. They don't seem to feel guilty for foisting religion upon children so why should I abandon my cultural roots and traditions?

Etymology
Origin uncertain; according to the Oxford English Dictionary, possibly from dialectal German Christkindl, Christkindle (“the Christ child, believed to deliver presents to children on Christmas Eve; the presents so brought”), from Christ (“Christ”) + Kindl, Kindle (dialectal diminutive of Kind (“child”)). The -ingle portion of the word may be a corruption of Kris Kringle (“Santa Claus”) (also derived from German Christkindl, Christ Kinde) among the German community in the United States.[1] en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Christingle

Has anyone checked out Kinder Surprise for transphobia? Does their Advent Calandar have trigger warnings???

Christingle is when the kids bring home oranges stuffed with cocktail sticks and sweets stuck on the ends.
They eat the sweets within two minutes of walking in the door then either leave the orange lying around for the little ones to find and impale themselves or start a mini sword fight with the cocktail sticks.
Constant vigilance required on the part of the childminder!

Tried to wade through all that self-centred word-porridge to find out what's transphobic now and gave up.

Freddy isn’t a Christian, doesn’t attend church except for one service aimed at children, and wants their local church to change everything to focus on Freddy’s particular demands.

At least Freddy’s consistent. They were trying to have the definitions of mother and father changed to suit their demands earlier this year.

Someone should have a word - the world isn’t Freddy’s to remake.

What does Freddy do for the wider community?

Yes Tanith I associate christingle with an orange with cloves stuck in the skin and a red ribbon round on it to symbolise the earth surround by god's love and....something, its been a while. But in any case not a church in itself. How did the editor not correct this part of it at least?

@Tanith

Christingle is when the kids bring home oranges stuffed with cocktail sticks and sweets stuck on the ends. They eat the sweets within two minutes of walking in the door then either leave the orange lying around for the little ones to find and impale themselves or start a mini sword fight with the cocktail sticks. Constant vigilance required on the part of the childminder!

Tried to wade through all that self-centred word-porridge to find out what's transphobic now and gave up.

Although it occurs to me that it's a bit heteronormative - after all, oranges are not the only fruit.