Radio 4 Woman's Hour on Thursday - two mothers talk for and against puberty blockers

[nauticant]

I'll revive the thread on Thursday

Here we go, in Woman's Hour's nuanced discussion of the Keira Bell decision, we have Bigot Mummy vs Kind Mummy.

Ahh, they're doing Kind Mummy today and Bigot Mummy tomorrow so not head-to-head as trailed.

The clash between fantasy and reality, and how it has been enabled by adults, is very obvious here.

I don't see how anyone could think this was a good thing. Of course kids from this child's primary school were going to say this person 'presenting as a girl' was actually a boy. It's not a nasty rumour. It's fact.

This is distressing. After six years of being told that it's possible for a male child to grow up 'as a girl', I can see that it's devastating for a child and family to come up against the reality.

"Child in panic. Would have taken the blockers at 12. A male puberty means male characteristics which are irreversible. Terrified of being misgendered. We don't have the luxury of time. It's puberty blockers, THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE. Puberty blockers and cross hormone treatment are separate. The only effect of puberty blockers is pausing puberty. I have no doubt about this. I wouldn't do this to my child if I thought it would hurt her."

It's all about living in absolute terror of the child going through male puberty.

Ironically, both parents are afraid of their child developing irreversible male characteristics.

'The alternative' (to puberty blockers) 'would be much more scary for us....'

DRAMATIC PAUSE.

Call me a mean old cynic, but the tears seemed a little forced too. I really don't want to pick apart another parent and their choices, but the tears seemed like very much part of the emotional smokescreen that is so often deployed instead of robust, factual argument.

FFS

Well, the tears worked as a deflection for any challenging questioning that might have come from Jane Garvey.

I wonder whether this mother has ever been properly challenged over this?

It's common with a seriously distressed child to search for anything that will make things better right now rather than trying to look ten/twenty/thirty years into their adult life and guessing whether they will be better for it in the long term (got the t-shirt on that one and don't blame the parents here).

True that. One thing the mother stressed was how they were living one day at a time. A longer view might be more prudent.

Teeny tiny point...

Why do people (including the first mother) NOT simply state a child's age but instead say what year at school the child is in? I find that a bit strange..

Because it's easier to peg it to 'first mentioned it when in Mrs Baker's class' rather than before/after a birthday, probably.

I'd've liked a bit more info off the tears woman.

What does the father think about all of it?

Any siblings? How has this impacted them?

Does her child have any (other?) mental problems?

I get that this interview was about the court case really, but it did nevertheless include a lot of backstory so...

Early social transition creates the need for puberty blockers and medical transition.

Parents find it relatively easy to help their children present as the opposite sex before puberty, but then they and the poor child come up against puberty. Because they've been in denial about the child's sex, this creates a distressing problem.

And now a family who thought that FGM was the correct, best, kindest thing to do for their child.

To be clear, that's what WH is discussing now - not what was brought up in the PB interview.

@DodoPatrol

And now a family who thought that FGM was the correct, best, kindest thing to do for their child.

Do you think that maybe WH wants us to compare the two without overtly saying so?

'Do you think that maybe WH wants us to compare the two without overtly saying so?'

I was just thinking that.

Oh, I missed the FGM bit. Sounds like an interesting juxtaposition.

I felt sorry for the first mother, and her child. They've been sold the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow by everyone they have had dealings with.

The BBC have also been selling that pot of gold to parents and children (including WH) with their 'Just a Girl' (4 series), I am Leo without any evidence, and the myriad of one-offs like the programme following the Welsh teenager recently.

It is in their interests to pass it off as 'just a view/opinion'

Early social transition creates the need for puberty blockers and medical transition.

This is such an important point.

Will listen back later. Is the mother getting any sort of psychological support/counselling, seems like she might need it.

She's being supported by an LGBTQ+ support group. She wouldn't have been able to cope otherwise.

So much to unpick there

The wheels are, at last, falling off the Affirmation-only bus and the poor bloody passengers have been left sitting in it with no one helping them to get off.