Kelly Jones’ daughter is now his son

[IrishMumSW19]

Has anyone else seen this? It seems that his daughter was a lesbian then realised it was ‘more of a gender issue’ and is now his son. Seems to be more and more common.

That’s like one of Bob Mortimer’s cat names.

@PurpleHoodie

"Lolita Bootsy"??

'LOL' for short. Mind you, that's not much better...

@Deliriumoftheendless

That’s like one of Bob Mortimer’s cat names.

@DrDetriment

It's terrifying the number of girls coming out as trans just because they are not stereotypically 'girly' and are attracted to women. My friend's daughter now identifies as a boy and they refer to her as a son. She's just a good old fashioned butch lesbian but that doesn't seem to be acceptable now.

The end of this cannot come soon enough.

Boys would be boys when I was young, as a girl I always felt my brothers had a better life than me but I never wanted to kick a ball around rain or shine every Sat afternoon, spend a day changing the oil in my car, shooting, fishing, doing house repairs for DM - I know girls can do all these things but there isn't an expectations of boys to do them so being a boy just means - well what? ? Having cropped hair ?

I thought Kelly Jones was very careful to show support for his child, it was a careful interview. There were a couple of things that stood out for me. First the story about breaking his best mates window for going out with his girlfriend after they had split up. It is revelatory to me of an underlying attitude to women, as owned, and part of the reason perhaps many us would opt to opt out of it given the chance.

The other thing that struck me was the conversation about honesty at the beginning. Then the comments towards the end of the interview saying that nobody knows why there is a massive increase in FTM transition. There have always been tomboys. Perhaps people can just say it now. That was entirely disingenous, no mention of the hardship of physical transition, of social pressure, social contagion, need for attention.

I read this article last year and do think there are some parallels with the social contagion aspect of the desire to transition.

Lisa Marchiano has also written some good stuff about this.

muckrack.com/lisa-marchiano-1/bio

Coming out as a lesbian is a different social experience for a teenager.

The thing that always strikes me is: gay boys tend to be championed by the opposite sex. Whereas lesbians get fetishised by the opposite sex. They don't generally become accepted as peers by the boys; they get othered by both their own and the opposite sex.

I'd attribute the 4000% increase to two factors: girls are subjected to more of the crap that causes dysphoria and dysmorphia; and our prophylactic mantra, that allows us to be comfortable in our own skin by locating the source of distress in society instead of within ourselves, has been deemed sinful and forbidden.

And I will add to the chorus of raised eyebrows at the name Lolita!

@Erishkigalangcleg thank you SO much for that link to Lisa Marchiano’s articles. I’ve just read ‘No you don’t have a disorder, you have feelings’ and it’s so good. So applicable to experiences/treatments/approaches of/to gender dysphoria. This quote particularly struck me but I was spoilt for choice to be honest:

“ Much mental suffering results from being stuck in a story about ourselves. When we take the story at face value, we risk reifying and reinforcing it, when what heals and transforms is anything that allows us to shift our perspective and transcend the narrow, ego-bound experience of ourselves.“

I suggest you follow Ereshkigalangcleg’s advice and visit the link in her post from 08.38 today. I’m going to cut and paste it just in case this thread disappears.

... thank you SO much for that link to Lisa Marchiano’s articles. I’ve just read ‘No you don’t have a disorder, you have feelings’ and it’s so good.

I really want to read that but tho I followed the link from eresh I couldn't locate that article.

Help!

erish meant to say, sorry..

It’s the third link under the ‘Biography’ heading on the page that that links take you to - it’s from a magazine called Areo. Just scroll down a bit.

It’s Eresh I made a typo in my first attempt at it!

I've made it!

Thanks everyone but especially Ereshkigalangcleg.

Finally nailed the name!

Those are some great articles. Thanks @Ereshkigalangcleg

God poor child, what a dreadful birth name to be given.

There are logically two possibilities.

One is that this child is genuinely a boy, whether it’s the case that he always has been a boy, or that he’s recently become one. In this case he should not be at a girls’ school, in exactly the same way that another boy shouldn’t be. Why should he be treated differently from other boys? He’s just a boy!

The other possibility is that this child is a girl who is deeply uncomfortable (for a whole variety of potential reasons) with conforming to restrictive and oppressive gender stereotypes (and frankly with a birth name like that my sympathies are entirely with her). In that case the school should not be pretending she has turned into a boy. It’s cruel.

Has Kelly explained why women can’t look like bartenders? Why they can’t be bartenders?

Actually I think it’s quite interesting that he used the Americanism ‘bartender’. If he’d used ‘barman’ it might have forced him to confront the appalling sex stereotypes in his own mind. The neutral term enables him to conceal these from himself while seeming really hip (is that even a word nowadays?)

The kid is at a girls school? And a child in the situation - male born id as female - could also argue to be at an all girl school...

So all female environments are the default for everyone then?

Great timing. He's got a new album out.

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

The kid is at a girls school? And a child in the situation - male born id as female - could also argue to be at an all girl school...

So all female environments are the default for everyone then?

Basically yes. My friend who is an FTM got very put out when they were put on a mixed sex ward in hospital. But they didn't want to go to a men's ward. That would be unsafe. They still wanted to be in with women.

So it’s looking like it’s men/male and default then?