Kelly Jones’ daughter is now his son

[IrishMumSW19]

Has anyone else seen this? It seems that his daughter was a lesbian then realised it was ‘more of a gender issue’ and is now his son. Seems to be more and more common.

It's fashionable now 🙄

Quote from Kelly Jones in the Daily Mail article about this:

"'I went to this carol service and watching all these teenage girls singing with long hair and the little spots and all the stuff they’re doing.

'And he walked down with a short cropped haircut, like David Bowie, wearing trousers and a shirt.

'And he's like, "I look like a bartender" and he couldn't look more different from the rest of the girls there. And I'm thinking, "Well, that takes a lot of balls that".

Twenty or thirty years ago nobody would have looked twice at a girl with short hair who "looked like a bartender." (That probably applied to me for a couple of years in the 90s although I'd left school by then.) And if a girl looked like the frequently androgynous David Bowie, well how could that be a bad thing?

I wish I could tell these kids that just because they're not 'girly', that doesn't mean they're not girls. They're fine the way they are and they should tell anyone who tells them they're not girls to go fuck themselves. My heart really does go out to them.

Cropped hair
Shirt (men’s I assume)
Trousers (men’s I assume)

Crikey I was ahead of the curve in the 1980s!

Well at least now she won't be able to be prescribed puberty blockers and maybe, like R Kelly's daughter, she'll desist once she's old enough to realise that being a gender non-conforming woman is fine

This is confusing; I googled Shiloh as I'd forgotten how old she is and google told me her name was John and she was Angelina's son.

Despite all recent articles saying she and her etc.

I wasn't aware of a formal change?

Seems to be a bit of a Hollywood/celeb thing these days.

@DinoGloria

This is confusing; I googled Shiloh as I'd forgotten how old she is and google told me her name was John and she was Angelina's son.

Despite all recent articles saying she and her etc.

I wasn't aware of a formal change?

Oh, I hope not. The screenshot is of what Angelina Jolie was saying in March this year, so of they have gone down the transgender route, it's recent. She's joked about having to call her John too.

So "lesbian" is no longer useful as a concept - all people formerly known as lesbians can now be viewed as boys.

Totally homophobic, this new gender identity extremism ...

Is this pressure routinely put on young gay boys?

I think there has been an element of that placed on young boys for a long time. That's why the stereotypical transsexual was someone biologically male, who wished to live as a woman and dated men.

Name changed for this..
I think he(?) goes to DD's school. They will do everything they can to make it as easy as possible I'm sure.

The most recent articles about Shiloh are from august and still saying she.

They've always called her John (or she wanted to), not completely surprised as kids usually like plainer names if it's unusual or more fancy if it's plain!

Her grandfather was John too.

It's annoying if it's bloody google.

That's why the stereotypical transsexual was someone biologically male, who wished to live as a woman and dated men

Yes, I get that - but there isn't an epidemic of this, with a 4000% increase in referrals to the GIDS, for example. And many 'feminine' gay men find an outlet in drag, and are out & proud gay men. (Well, at least in my experience!)

I agree. I think it comes down to social pressures being different for same-sex attracted boys and same-sex attracted girls, aren't they?

I can't see the big picture, because I'm one person, but what I see on my little jigsaw piece, looks like this. There is more visibility and positive representation for gay men. The biggest external pressure for young boys is a homophobic family/family that can't accept a boy not being stereotypically masculine. If a male child gets to adolescence having had those negative family experiences, there are positive role models for him, and he may not get pulled down the internet rabbit holes of reddit and so on. For girls though, being same-sex-attracted is fetishised. Coming out as a lesbian is a different social experience for a teenager.

This isn't universal, and it is happening to boys, but that's my two pence on why it's not happening on the same scale.

• not having had those negative family experiences!

What I struggle with is this insistence of accepting your child and their decisions or else you don’t love them/are creating a toxic environment/are not allowing them to be their true, authentic self and making them want to move out.

What if that decision wasn’t assuming a different gender - what if it was an unsuitable boyfriend/girlfriend? Or their dream of being a gaming champion? Or getting a sleeve tattoo? At what point do parents not get to have a say on what you’re doing if they feel it may be having a negative effect on your life?

Why is it (mostly) middle aged women trying to say “but we know you may change your mind, we know you better than anyone. We remember this time, it’s shit, but it’ll pass” and then getting shot down and called Karen TERFS?

Not to derail but is this something that occurs more in single sex schools than mixed sex school. I hear. A lot of this happening in girls schools and wonder if this is a particular trend?

Lolita. I think I would be identifying out of that one too!

This appears to fall into a fully emerged (and homophobic) pattern of society applying pressure on young lesbians to conceive of themselves as men.

@LajesticVantrashell

What I struggle with is this insistence of accepting your child and their decisions or else you don’t love them/are creating a toxic environment/are not allowing them to be their true, authentic self and making them want to move out.

What if that decision wasn’t assuming a different gender - what if it was an unsuitable boyfriend/girlfriend? Or their dream of being a gaming champion? Or getting a sleeve tattoo? At what point do parents not get to have a say on what you’re doing if they feel it may be having a negative effect on your life?

Why is it (mostly) middle aged women trying to say “but we know you may change your mind, we know you better than anyone. We remember this time, it’s shit, but it’ll pass” and then getting shot down and called Karen TERFS?

I don't get it either, and I've btdt twice!

I KNOW that it's possible to love and care for a child while (lovingly, carefully) refusing to allow a premature foreclosing of their identity via social/hormonal transition.

I am probably one of the most permissive mums I know. Very few rules at our house, we don't really do punishments etc. But even I know that there are times when a child needs a parent to set a strong and stable boundary, based on the parent's adult ability to understand, synthesise, and contextualise complex issues.

Can there be a lack of good lesbian role models?

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

Can there be a lack of good lesbian role models?

Lots of lesbians of both sexes (ho ho) so in theory there're a lot of people to chose from!

Ohhhhh you bad girl.

I doubt she would be rushing to use the boys toilets out there in the trail world.