Boys 'rating' girls at Sec School

[GCFeministNC]

A few school Mums and I have become aware of disgusting misogynistic behaviour going on at out teen daughters' school.
Boys are free to make comments in public (within class and on group chat messages) about parts of girls' bodies they like and don't like. They happily 'rate' girls based on their physical attributes and discuss the size of their genitalia, and porn, in class.
This is happening in Year 8 and 9.
Does this warrant an email to the school? My friend who's raised this doesn't want to write as she doesn't want her daughter spoken to (has been some serious bullying happening so she wants to focus on that).

Any teachers here who could suggest a way of approaching this with the school? And who to direct emails to?

You need to work as a team, one mother can be placated/fobbed off as their daughter being too sensitive or misunderstanding what happened. Likewise that a teacher hasn't intervened because it's a one off.

Much more difficult to ignore a group, do you have a parent on the governors board?

Good luck. I agree the best way is to be coordinated (but still each write and act separately).

This is vile OP. I agree that you should all write desperately detailing the harm this does to your child and how not calling it out will be dangerous for the future, and also write as a group.

If the school doesn't handle this well then you can escalate it to the school governors and beyond.

Really awful, but glad you are aware.

Well to be fair, my younger sisters Facebook is just girls and boys rating each other. It swings both ways I think.

You could email school with your concerns and hope they take into account what you are saying. It's pretty awful to go through during pubity and there is enough to be self conscious about at that time.

At the same time, sex is constantly on the brain at that age. Parents are just as responsible for bringing up their children to be respectful.

Maybe school could send home a letter reminding parents to chat to their DCs about respect. Pathetic that that is what has to happen but not everyone is aware of how bring up teenagers.

I think I'm the angriest about this to be honest and I'm not sure the other parents want to cause a fuss. So it might just be me writing.

I've seen the PSHE/RSE content and it's pleasingly non-Stonewall-ised. It does cover aspects of respect and a little on porn - having had dialogue with the staff member who was responsible for issuing this info to parents - I was thinking I could use some of that content to initiate dialogue?

Ok, so I've written as has at least one other parent.

I did stress the fact that the boys constantly talk about PornHub; and how this is a HUGE safe-guarding issue (ages 12-14? FFS). Wish Lang was still around in these parts to give detailed advice on that!

I don't think your DD's school is by any means unusual. My DD is yr9 and hates how some of the boys behave and speak to girls. There's lots of talk around porn and whether girls are 'peng' or 'hot' and whether they would date them. There are literally a handful of boys in her year that seem to be able to behave appropriately.

I would be livid. I put up with this shit all through my schooling and there was no pornhub to contend with.

@Beamur

I don't think your DD's school is by any means unusual. My DD is yr9 and hates how some of the boys behave and speak to girls. There's lots of talk around porn and whether girls are 'peng' or 'hot' and whether they would date them. There are literally a handful of boys in her year that seem to be able to behave appropriately.

I know it's not unusual but (as I'm sure you'll agree) it doesn't mean it's right and should be an issue that is dropped. It would be great if they added this stuff to their behavioural conduct policy - it is a sought after selective school in an area with no other decent options so temporary exclusions would mean those boys' parents would put the fear of God in to them!

What does peng mean?

Does this warrant an email to the school?

Yes.

Collect as much evidence as poss.

OP, I am so sorry that this is happening. Are any of the boys’ parents sensible at all? I would be horrified if my son (Y5) was involved in anything like this and we would have a long discussion at home - and he would lose all screen privileges for a week.

I would speak with head of pastoral care to be honest. I would phrase it as a serious issue as the girls feel extremely uncomfortable as a result.

I didn't mean to say it happens and that's ok. I think it's appalling and I have raised specific incidents that have happened to my DD with the school.
Peng means attractive. There are other variations that mean very attractive, or not attractive!

Thanks... I could only think 🐧

@CatsCantCatchCriminals2

Does this warrant an email to the school?

Yes.

Collect as much evidence as poss.

It feels like grooming to me, even though it's not intentional. Quietly chipping away at the girls' boundaries so they feel it's pointless raising complaints. DD describes it as making her feel 'icky'. Fuck that happening on my watch!!

The chipping away at boundaries sounds very familiar too. I think my DD sees it in a way some of the girls are oblivious too. The boys will make comments, push push and push and then back off and ask them if they're friends, or to do something for them, like pick something up they've dropped. It's very much part of a pattern of behaviour. I do find myself wondering where the boys are learning this too.

That's worse than I expected op. At my sixth form I remember some of the guys did a ratings list, and I think some of the girls made one too, but it was much more innocent, nothing about genitalia size! That sounds like they've been watching way too much porn.

I find myself longing for the good old days when it was just naughty magazines. Way less harmful than what we have now. I hate the thought of what it's doing to a generation of younger people to see this toxic stuff.

I'd be speaking to the school about this if I were in your shoes too. The girls don't deserve this.

Are you sure the girls aren't doing it too? When my boys were Year 8 or 9 I used to look at their phones when they went to bed. There were some pretty innocuous messages on group chat around, "Name your top 5 girls", usually suggested by a girl and the boys would answer, "Erin, Scarlett, Izzy, Robyn, Indi" or whatever. And "What do you think of Me?" type questions: Hot, funny, cool, chatty being the usual answers.

There wasn't chat between girls and boys about Porn though (they were at single sex schools in the same town), but i saw it as burgeoning sexuality and them all jostling for and trying to understand their place in the world, nothing more sinister than that.

Is that the kind of thing that you're talking about OP or is it more sexualised than that?

This kind of behaviour is nothing new, though it does sound more vulgar and offensive than when I was at school. Teachers should do something about it, but I think girls also need to be encouraged to hold their own and stand up for themselves and other girls. The sad fact is that many males bond with each other through this kind of behaviour, which tends to divide and weaken female solidarity because girls (and women) don't always stand up for themselves or each other in response. In the worst case, they laugh along or join in when the objectification is not aimed at them. Realistically, wilting like a little flower and hoping teacher will resolve things is not going to stop this kind of behaviour, and doesn't help girls learn lessons for dealing with this stuff when they are older (I've heard plenty of 'ratings' of women in professional workplaces...). It's a good moment to learn some choice put-downs and retorts which will shut the boys up, even if it means stooping to their level. But that's just my take!

No advice, but just remembered that the precursor to Facebook was Facemash - a site for Mark Zuckerberg's friends to rate the attractiveness of college women.

Actually this sort of behaviour is a lot less likely in the workplace these days thanks to laws around sexual harassment. Why should 12 and 13 year old girls (children) have to contend with a more toxic environment than adult women. I would be absolute fuming and would not hold back. The head needs to step up and take control.

OP, it might be worth offering to share your letter with other parents to encourage them to write/email in to?
I am the sort of person who as you (quite rightly) would be outraged by this, but the thought of putting a letter together might be quite daunting at times. I'm dyslexic and struggle with organisation and a letter from scratch would take me hours.
However I would put my name to an already written letter that I agree with, or I would take your letter and make it my own, but it would definitely make me more likely to add support to your claim.

I think this sort of thing is common, it happened a lot at the school I went to. I remember the girls in my class compiling a list of boys they thought would be well endowed, the boys did similar things relating to breast size generally.

Bringing it to the attention of the school might help, but to me the thing is really to talk to the kids about speaking respectfully about others. Ideally this would happen at home, but it could be a discussion in the school as well. Even if the school shuts down the internet based stuff, kids will just talk about it in person. They need to actually change their thinking.

Girls and young women should be recording these comments (for evidence).

Gawd knows, everyone has a phone that can do that these days...

This sort of thing is unacceptable regardless of the sex of the children involved - here in the Times today is evidence that it should be taken seriously.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teenage-fears-over-appearance-linked-to-depression-in-girls-and-boys-9qh2vns78?shareToken=b683c14a0aebc2d5904916393606cc30