Grayson Perry's Art Club' Exhibition

[BitMuch]

www.channel4.com/programmes/graysons-art-club. I really enjoyed watching this series during lockdown because the amateur artists are very diverse and it showcases some interesting work. In this week's episode, for the final exhibition of their work, Grayson Perry dressed up in a way he is open about being very sexually aroused by. He has these clothes specifically designed to hide an erection. He didn't dress this way in any of the previous episodes. I found this totally disrespectful of him, especially when he was talking to the amateur artists who travelled to Manchester for the event despite covid, including a 17 year old girl and a young man with autism. The programme was primarily about the members of the public and showcasing their art. It's a nice pre-watershed family-friendly programme that has children on it, like a young 12 year old boy who made a collage of his twin brother who passed away.

Why does Grayson act out his fetish in events he attends that are not remotely 'adult' in nature?

Grayson went to a a primary school event with the Duchess of Cambridge and decided to wear his fetish gear to that so I have no idea where he draws the line. This is so accepted by society at large but I cannot feel comfortable with it. He seems so Jekyll and Hyde. Would a man wearing a gimp suit be invited along with a royal to speak with children in a primary school?

Also, his wife Phillipa Perry was the joint presenter and she made art too so I don't know why her name was missing from the title. It would have been more accurate to be called 'Grayson and Phillipa's Art Club'.

[DidoLamenting]

@Lettera

Dido, do you have an opinion on men who deliberately dress or present themselves in such a way as to provoke a reaction that will arouse them sexually? (I am not suggesting that this is what Perry does.) That is the subject of my post, not goths, punks or anyone else you consider 'looks a bit out of the ordinary'.

I have no opinion on them- should I have? I'm not especially aware of ever having met any.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Why lies?

It's his opinion. It doesn't mean that everything he said, or feels about the work is the only interpretation. It is how he responds to it!

Not being GP I have/had a very different response to the Vivian Girls! Doesn't mean I am the soul arbiter either!

But mostly why lies? Darger was a weird, reclusive outsider who made some very strange, gender bending, bloodthirsty art! It has many written counterparts, like the Brothers Grimm...

[Poorlykitten]

@nauticant I obviously did but couldn't find it.

[Scout2016]

Thanks for this thread OP, and all the effort you have taken, and thanks other posters for the clearly articulated reasons why this isn't ok. I think I am now an ex fan, because I can't unsee it.
@BitMuch If you do write to channel 4 I would be interested to know what their response is.

[CatsCantCatchCriminals2]

I do "have an opinion on men who deliberately dress or present themselves in such a way as to provoke a reaction that will arouse them sexually?"

Very creepy.

[malificent7]

Meh...can't get fully worked up about this...but it is a hit attention seeking. Fashion= sexuality for many.

[malificent7]

Bit*

[DidoLamenting]

He deliberately chose his "lady who lunches" fetish dress instead of any of the non-fetish clothes he wears most days of the weekamp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/15/duchess-cambridge-grayson-perry-visit-childrens-studio

A fetish dress? How exactly? We are talking about the black, full skirted dress with the pussy- cat bow? It's a beautiful dress. You see that as "fetish wear"?

"Lady who lunches" describes it perfectly. Is that what you're objecting to? Giving it that name?

[BitMuch]

You see that as "fetish wear"?

Please could people read through my previous posts properly before commenting? There is a OP's posts 'see all' button to do this easily.

I don't want to clog up the thread for people who do RTFT by copying and pasting the dozens of quotes I have already posted from Grayson Perry stating very clearly, proudly and openly many times that when he dresses up in this way, it is always sexually motivated by his fetish. He goes into a lot of detail about it which I have copied and pasted, starting in my second post which is on Page 4 of the thread. Evidence of everything I am talking about is already listed in my previous posts. You will be confused by my later posts discussing what he has said if you don't read through what he has actually said.

[DidoLamenting]

I have not read every single one of your posts and don't intend to. I saw the photograph. It's a beautiful dress and he looks good in it. End of story.

So much for anyone can wear anything (except for the long list of exceptions)

[nauticant]

You see that as "fetish wear"?

I have not read every single one of your posts and don't intend to.

You are denying there's a fetish on the basis of avoiding the evidence of GP saying "my fetish sexually excites me"? Deary me.

[MissBarbary]

@nauticant

You see that as "fetish wear"?

I have not read every single one of your posts and don't intend to.

You are denying there's a fetish on the basis of avoiding the evidence of GP saying "my fetish sexually excites me"? Deary me.

I'm not interested. I couldn't actually care less about his motivation for wearing it. The dress is beautiful and it's rather a modest dress.

This thread simply gives lie to how weak the everyone can wear anything mantra is. I do think some of you will never be happy unless everyone is in identical gender neutral Mao suits.

[MissBarbary]

Sorry forgot to name change back after posting on the Archers' thread.

[nauticant]

To me this thread is about wilfull blindness.

[RozWatching]

"But why, for instance, the Little Bo Peep look? “It’s a classic look. I used to call it the crack cocaine of femininity. It’s the furthest from the male macho look you could get. It’s vulnerable, it’s young, it’s humiliating.'

“When she [his daughter] was very young, we used to say, ‘Oh, Daddy’s dressing up to go to a party’, which was pretty true most of the time. I never sat her down and talked about my sexuality. Too much information!”

Afaik he doesn't always turn up in one of his woman costumes, so it's quite interesting that he decided to dress up for other people's kids when the whole world (except a couple of posters here ) knows that it's a turn-on for him.

[borntobequiet]

This thread isn’t a Style and Beauty discussion on what people can wear at whatever age they may be or whatever occasion they are dressing for. It’s specifically talking about a man who uses exaggerated female dress - however beautifully designed and made - to indulge his fetish, which he is perfectly candid about, and who uses other people, including children, as props in his fetish. Anyone who reads it in any other way is quite frankly dim.

[Poorlykitten]

I can’t get too worked up about it either. I love his work and what he chooses to do in his spare time is up to him, as long as he’s not harming anyone. His clothes are mostly designed by his students and most of what he said and wore in his early 20s and 30s was designed to shock. Now it’s all part of his brand and frankly slightly jaded. I liked his lockdown programme, he came across personable and interesting. That’s it really. Can’t get too over excited about any of it.

[DidoLamenting]

@borntobequiet

This thread isn’t a Style and Beauty discussion on what people can wear at whatever age they may be or whatever occasion they are dressing for. It’s specifically talking about a man who uses exaggerated female dress - however beautifully designed and made - to indulge his fetish, which he is perfectly candid about, and who uses other people, including children, as props in his fetish. Anyone who reads it in any other way is quite frankly dim.

I really couldn't care less.

"Wear whatever you want- as long as you submit it along with a note of your intentions and motivation to the Radical Feminists of FWR so they can approve or veto it".

[Scout2016]

Harry Styles, Kurt Cobain, David Bowie put on a dress for the hell of it, for fun, to be a bit controversial, love of fashion, whatever... not sexually motivated. At least, they've never said otherwise as far as I know.

Grayson Perry wears dresses because it turns him on, it's part of his sexuality. He has said this over and over. And he has said that part of the attraction is the responses of other people. Other people who haven't in any way consented to being part of this sexual act.

So in the who can wear what they like category, I'd rather Harry in a frock at my child's school than Grayson.
Well, the other two would be ace but their attendance is even more unlikely.

And, if I had for years told everyone I get a kick out of wearing a frock, I might think twice about doing so to a school, even if I actually found it the least arousing trip out ever. Because I might think it looked a bit iffy.

[wonderstuff]

I really like Grayson, he is extremely talented, both as an artist and a documentary maker. He deals with challenging and divisive issues with a tenderness and care that is inspiring I think. His work on masculinity, nationalism and class is brilliant.

He is clearly an exhibitionist, it's a shame he chose to dress this way for the exhibition opening, I agree that with kids involved he should have avoided the persona, I wonder if it's a comment on the current embrace of trans culture, is he more controversial for dressing up because he's honest about his kink or are Izzard et al deciding that not accepting their alter ego is a hate crime really the more sinister actors?

It was a poor choice though and some of his comments and attitudes quoted in this thread are problematic. On balance I don't feel they detract from my admiration of his work.

I don't think that we can demand that all our artists are consistently beyond reproach. There's good and bad in most of us. As far as I can tell he's not actually hurting anyone, he's making people feel uncomfortable from time to time, but isn't that part of art?

When he did the Tomb of the Unknown Craftsman exhibition he did a free evening for teachers and was incredibly generous with his time and came across as genuine and thoughtful. IDK, maybe I've been duped by his charm

[Poorlykitten]

I’m pretty sure David Bowie got a kick out of wearing all sorts of outre gear including women’s clothing and he also got a kid out of having sex with underage kids but that’s okay because he’s David Bowie.

[laudemio]

Some of the quotes here are horrific. I won't ever see GP in the same light again. And I would certainly not let my children be around him.

[BitMuch]

If I made an identical post about a lovely charming man who went to a primary school dressed in a fully covering non-revealing adult baby babygrow costume to talk to children about art with a public blog describing his sexual motivation for his clothing choice, would anyone say 'So much for anyone can wear anything' 'This thread simply gives lie to how weak the everyone can wear anything mantra is. I do think some of you will never be happy unless everyone is in identical gender neutral Mao suits.'

If not, why not? Primary school children don't know about 'adult baby' men, they could easily think it's just arty clothing. Some could be instinctively uncomfortable with this man because they can sense creepy motivations like I could as a child, should that matter? Should their parents tell them why he wears it if asked about it? Should they lie and say it's just arty progressive clothing? If they complain to the school, should anyone care?

Perry wears many things which are more obviously girlishly artistic, such as this when he accepted an art award with his family. I'm not complaining about how his clothes look. I'm complaining about someone who calls himself 'an unapologetic fetishist' deliberately choosing any clothes which he says turn him on to be seen in when going to a primary school to talk to children in an event supposed to encourage them to do art. I'd complain if someone wore babygrows or leather dog outfits or gimp suits or little girl or boy costumes or 'furry' cat costumes around children if they said doing so is due to a fetish.

I can't read this article because it is behind a paywall but the article is titled 'Grayson Perry: My greatest sort of sex dream was to be a housewife walking down the road'. Perry has chosen to be photographed for this article posing on a couch in the EXACT same dress he wore to that primary school. www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/23/grayson-perry-my-greatest-sort-of-sex-dream-was-to-be-a-housewif/amp/.

[DidoLamenting]

@Poorlykitten

I’m pretty sure David Bowie got a kick out of wearing all sorts of outre gear including women’s clothing and he also got a kid out of having sex with underage kids but that’s okay because he’s David Bowie.

You will probably get deleted for saying that -there are a lot of Bowie fans on here but he gets a free pass for some reason.