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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jo Maugham

582 replies

GoodbyePorpoiseSpit · 04/12/2020 20:51

I follow Jo on Twitter and feel that the GoodLaw project is a needed and good thing when it comes to holding ministers/gov spending to account. He seems to take refuge in the rule of law and facts .... so, so WHY after the recent ruling on puberty blockers is he tweeting and retweeting Trans folk who are sharing (in emotive and extra detail) their experience post ruling. What his deal?? What’s his skin in the game? Looked through some old tweets and he really seems to have come down hard against women’s rights.
Ca anyone explain his deal here?

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Kit19 · 15/12/2020 09:47

the things is as well is that he's going to make mermaids and stonewall look (even more) daft

eventually it will be stated plain as day the exact reason why they couldnt intervene i.e. they didnt meet the standards required - that it is to support public interest rather than one side or the other and that they present new evidence not otherwise available to the court.

the fact that neither mermaids or stonewall could do that, speaks volumes!

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 15/12/2020 09:49

It really does Kit!

PronounssheRa · 15/12/2020 10:14

He knows why mermaids and stonewall weren't given permission to intervene, he also knows that 'trans children' were heard. Its all in the judgement and in the reasons why permission to appeal was denied.

He sounds like a conspiracy theorist. Its actually quite uncomfortable to read, like he has lost all perspective.

nauticant · 15/12/2020 10:20

He knows he can't go into the Court of Appeal and argue that evidence can be disregarded because he views the other side's experts as bigots. So why is he arguing in this way? It's purely to rile up his base, to create a sense of unfairness and to generate anger.

Now, who else in the past month or so has been heavily using this approach?

PlantMam · 15/12/2020 10:26

Gosh, he seems to be in some kind of state of unhealthy hyper vigilance?
He’s thinks white supremacists, religious fundies and Tory cronies are around every corner.

I’ve seen posters on trans forums start to deride him as a ‘c*s saviour’ already.
Won’t be long now til the fox story pops up in social media memory sections.

Datun · 15/12/2020 10:36

Does he see himself as some kind of crusading knight? He must know that making personal attacks on the witnesses won't change the court outcome. And that everybody understands the emptiness of an ad hominem argument.

And he can't possibly think it will help the appeal. It's got nothing to do with the personality, or allegiances of the people who gave evidence, for goodness sake.

He argues about lack of expertise from doctors, whilst simultaneously bemoaning that an IT consultant wasn't approved?

What on earth is he hoping to gain? He's doing absolutely nothing to add logic or credibility to the cause he claims to support. Quite the reverse.

StillAHarpie · 15/12/2020 11:59

Wow I have him muted from ages back. As an ardent Remain voter I found his anti Brexit rhetoric too much Hmm and as a policy I mute people for various reasons including boasting of animal cruelty Angry.

I have just taken a look at his feed and I’m struck by how little engagement he has these days for someone with the following and profile he does.

SirVixofVixHall · 15/12/2020 17:40

@nauticant

Considering the amount of personal capital Maugham is investing in this, in as public a way as possible, should the trans person on whose behalf he's crusading think about desisting, they'd be facing a daunting journey back.
This.
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/12/2020 17:56

“I've moved a long way in my conceptualisation of what privilege really means, and quite how extraordinarily stupid and thoughtless and arrogant my tribe can be,” he says over a Zoom call. “[They] always think they know better and never fucking listen.”

Maugham is referring to the prevalence of transphobia amongst an affluent and loud minority of middle class women and men, something the High Court’s ruling effectively institutionalised in England and Wales.

Maugham says the ruling is having an immediate impact on the lives of young trans people. “The data is unequivocal,” he says. “There is a very strong correlation between affirming the gender of trans young adults and reducing their risk of attempting or committing suicide, and the consequence of that data is that there will be children who kill themselves in consequence of this judgment.”

Young trans people have said it feels like, “a deep discomfort and almost a repulsion in your own body.” Not that the judges who made the decision would have fully understood that – one of the key issues Maugham noticed was that the High Court refused to take input from charities like Stonewall and Mermaids, and no trans children were spoken to throughout the ruling, something campaigners criticised at the time.

“The read across from that judgment to a child's right to consent to an abortion is obvious, right?,” Maugham asks.

“I think that the generation of feminists in the UK, that finds amongst it a lot of transphobes, has forgotten its privilege,” Maugham says, delicately. “It's forgotten its relative privilege compared to the trans community general”

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/12/2020 18:00

I've moved a long way in my conceptualisation of what privilege really means, and quite how extraordinarily stupid and thoughtless and arrogant my tribe can be

No you haven't. Or you'd have an iota of self awareness, Windmill Man. I'm not part of your "tribe", nor is Keira Bell, Katie Dolatowski's young victims or the women sexually assaulted in prison by Karen White.

PlantMam · 15/12/2020 18:11

Has anyone told Maugham that Vice was cofounded by Gavin McInnes of Proud Boys notoriety?

Because Maugham is now, by his own standards, alt right adjacent.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/world/gavin-mcinnes-who-founder-neo-fascist-group-proud-boys-and-co-founder-vice-magazine-and-his-links-scotland-2989805%3famp

ColourMagic · 15/12/2020 18:12

Maugham: ..... “What’s pretty troubling to me is that those charities which I understand to be really worried about this stuff aren't coming out and speaking,” Maugham tells me, “and they're not coming out and speaking because they're afraid of what a small influential vocal group of feminists will say about that stance.”

Excuse me?

That article and quotes from JM are complete reversals of reality.

Manderleyagain · 15/12/2020 18:14

I've just had a look ingognito cos he blocks me. No wonder he blocks everyone who might point out the problems.

There are a couple of points that are legitimate to bring up imo - eg it's reasonable to point out where the witness doesn't have experience /credentials in the specific field of gender medicine (though it depends what their evidence was about as to whether that matters). It's interesting that the same witnesses as well as lawyers are popping up as in religious freedom type cases supported by Christian evangelicals though that in itself doesn't discredit the evidence. I have seen people saying that the academic has 'links' to ADF and heritage foundation, but I haven't seen anyone explain what type of links - they always prefer to leave it vague.

But it's buried in with nonsense

  • eg that no members of the trans community were heard. If you read the judgement & the response to aapeal application that's just not true. Or efforts to present something as dodgy when it isn't - eg no trans orgs were allowed to intervene, the sheep study was 'taken up' by nutty sounding Christians. Well in that case any research that maugham points to has been taken up by the anti-fox league and is therefore discredited.

Whatever his motives, it will likely make the supporter base for the crowd fund feel got at, and like the courts are against them.

It's amazing that there's such a lack of concern for what the judges actually found. I think with some people, they want this conspiracy theory of Christians & evil terfs manipulating the court via dodgy witnesses to be true. Otherwise children have been treated with unevidenced experimental medicine that they did not consent to because they could not consent.

yourhairiswinterfire · 15/12/2020 18:16

What’s pretty troubling to me is that those charities which I understand to be really worried about this stuff aren't coming out and speaking,” Maugham tells me, “and they're not coming out and speaking because they're afraid of what a small influential vocal group of feminists will say about that stance

😂 I bet I can guess why they're keeping shtum, and it 'aint because their knees are knocking at what some women that no one is willing to listen to anyway might say.

C0NNIE · 15/12/2020 18:26

.....aren't coming out and speaking,” Maugham tells me, “and they're not coming out and speaking because they're afraid of what a small influential vocal group of feminists will say about that stance

That will be the International cabal of powerful lesbians.

Helmetbymidnight · 15/12/2020 18:59

such a bizarre angle:

keira bell, linda bellos, julie bindel, rachel rooney, maya forstater, karen davis, magdalen berns are/were part of his affluent middle class tribe?

jennifer pfizer, edward lord, pippa bunce, caitlyn jenna, ivy mckinnon, monroe bergdoff are the most voiceless and oppressed people ever?

how can he think this will wash with people?

DrudgeJedd · 15/12/2020 19:10

Twitter has broken his brain, he's getting no engagement from the usual suspects on legal twitter.
He's king of the anime avatars now.
I wasn't surprised to read that he once sued an employer for damages for sex discrimination. Of course he did, the big daftie

TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair · 15/12/2020 19:19

The one thing I keep thinking (while I shake my head and feel generally baffled that he is pursuing this) it that a lot of money is being thrown at this. That judgement was very considered and at no point is any court going to go, 'oh go on then. Give these experimental, potentially harmful drugs to a group of vulnerable young people who have barely had any mental health support'.

That money could be put towards establishing a dedicated trans refuge. or a good quality advice line for young people (with proper, supportive, sensible advice). Or into research on the rise of trans teens. Or, I don't know, it could go to a charity working in South America where the most vulnerable trans people are negotiating life. They're throwing it away on a hopeless cause aren't they?

WeeBisom · 15/12/2020 19:38

Aaaaand this is why I dislike this talk of “privilege.” It’s 2020 and it’s turned into an incredibly posh middle class bloke lecturing women about their “relative privilege”. Really, women are privileged now in relation to male bodied people ? In what way? Feminists are now expected to put other people first because women supposedly have all this privilege. Well it sure doesn’t feel like it.

WeeBisom · 15/12/2020 19:45

Just read the article. Maugham says that judges do not have the expertise to decide whether kids can consent to medical treatment. While judges often heavily defer to medical expertise when making a decision, they do have a great deal of expertise in deciding competency. Where is he getting this idea that judges are out of touch and ill equipped to make these kinds of decisions?

He’s also cross at children having to go to court to get permission for treatment. Apparently it’s extraordinary that a judge gets to decide and knows better than a parent. Well, he sounds a bit out of touch- this debate has been done to death with cases like Charlie Gard. Judges have to decide what is in the child’s best interest so they do indeed sometimes clash with parents wishes. Inadvertently, this whole idea that parents know best is something that was advocated by right wing Christian groups. Oops.

Haha and then he describes in detail how you can order hormone blockers off the dark web using Bitcoin. Absolutely batty.

Helmetbymidnight · 15/12/2020 19:54

i think that the generation of feminists in the UK, that finds amongst it a lot of transphobes, has forgotten its privilege,” Maugham says, delicately. “It's forgotten its relative privilege compared to the trans community general

astonishing.

FannyCann · 15/12/2020 20:06

Apparently the Good Law project is lining itself up with the Doctors' Association UK.
The DAUK which ran into trouble claiming they represented 30k doctors. The DAUK that appointed a certain Dr Harrop as media officer until they checked his twitter and started advertising for a new media officer about two weeks after giving him a glowing interview.
No doubt e pert witnesses aplenty to be found among the members of DAUK. Hmm

Jo Maugham
Jo Maugham
Helmetbymidnight · 15/12/2020 20:06

hes now saying 'feminists of privelege run the media'

he is absolutely deranged.

FannyCann · 15/12/2020 20:13

To be fair to DAUK they dropped Harrop pretty quickly but they certainly aren't the influential group that the Good Law Project would like to be associated with.

Jo Maugham