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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

No "female" gender option at work, only "cisgender female"

82 replies

Fittata · 04/12/2020 09:32

We have all been asked to update our personal information at work to list things such as our ethnicity, gender, security orientation etc. I think it is as part of a drive to be more diverse.

I am a bit uncomfortable being asked to express my sexual prefences at work anyway as I can't see how it is relevant, however I have done as asked. I am a straight, married woman.

On the gender identification section it lists about ten different genders but there is no male or female, just cisgender male and cisgender female. I ticked the option "my gender is not listed here" as I do not identify as "cisgender" as I find the term offensive and do not want to be defined as "not trans".

I am worried that my massively woke manager is going to take issue with this so I'm a bit worried about what I ticked. At the same time I feel like I should be doing more and asking HR why there is no "female" option but I am so worried at losing my job by sticking my neck out like this.

Not really sure what I'm asking here but just wondering if I have done the right thing and what to say if I'm challenged.

OP posts:
Original poster
Fittata · 04/12/2020 09:32

sexual orientation obvs, not security!

OP posts:
BreatheAndFocus · 04/12/2020 09:36

Are they even allowed to ask personal things like this? Can you just miss out some/most questions? Or say your personal info is fine as it is and doesn’t need updating?

How will they be storing this personal info?

EdgeOfACoin · 04/12/2020 09:36

I think you have done the right thing. It is scary, though.

I had to do something similar at my workplace not so long ago. Unfortunately, until enough people refuse to accept the label 'cis', it is here to stay.

Also, you never know - perhaps others in your workplace have done the same.

bluebluezoo · 04/12/2020 09:38

I’d just say you don’t identify as cisgender.

If challenged further ask them to be respectful and back off as you are confused about “gender identity” and require more time to consider.

Bare in mind the woke line is you are whatever you say you are.

I “identify” as genderfree as I have no particular male or female “internal feeling”, and sometimes I like trousers, cars and no make up, others I quite like a dress.

Original poster
Fittata · 04/12/2020 09:39

I did wonder about going back into the system and just unticking everything. But we have all had pressure from managers to put this in and my yearly appraisal is in two weeks so I am worried about rocking the boat.

I suspect they are allowed to ask as long as there is an option not to disclose anything?

OP posts:
bluebluezoo · 04/12/2020 09:39

*bear! Not naked!

TyroTerf · 04/12/2020 09:40

"Female" isn't a gender identification, so really it's good that it isn't there.

As you don't identify as "cisgender" then (assuming genderfree, terven resister, etc weren't listed) you ticked the right box. If you're challenged, simply say you're not "cisgender" and don't want to discuss further as it's a sensitive topic.

OhHolyJesus · 04/12/2020 09:41

You cannot collect data from someone just because you feel like it, for GDPR purposes they have to have a good reason. Have they said it was compulsory?

Does your employer have good reason to record your sexual orientation? I can only think if you worked in LGBT circles and you were counselling Bi people an employer might prefer you to be Bi, but it's a deeply personal and irrelevant question.

I think you did the right thing, they have assumed someone's 'gender' and if pushed I would ask what they mean, as in do them mean biological sex or do they mean gender identity say it wasn't clear on the form.

They also don't appear to have explained why they are doing this. You have a human right to privacy:

A right to privacy is explicitly stated under Article 12 of the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights: No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honor and reputation.

so ask some more questions, decline to engage and you could argue that it was invasive if push comes to shove. Ultimately they asked you answered, job done.

Mrgrinch · 04/12/2020 09:41

You are under no obligation to disclose your sexual orientation and if you have the option to un-tick that box I certainly would. And don't budge on the gender one, I would be very offended at being called cis.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 04/12/2020 09:42

Well done OP

Id be questioning why they're recording any data that doesnt fall within the protected characteristics of the Equality Act

and be looking out for specific plans to increase diversity beyond 'we keep records'

Original poster
Fittata · 04/12/2020 09:43

If female isn't a gender identification then what is my gender?!

Totally confused now.

OP posts:
Kaliorphic · 04/12/2020 09:43

Tell him you don't identify as any of those things and you don't want someone putting you in a tick box of what they think you should be. Aside from anything else it's none of his business. Only your sex needs to be captured in that, not how you identify.

Kaliorphic · 04/12/2020 09:44

If female isn't a gender identification then what is my gender?!

You don't have a gender. You do have a biological sex.

SebastianTheCrab · 04/12/2020 09:44

No one is allowed to question anyone else's gender identity so I highly doubt your manager would bring it up. If they do just say it's a private matter and you're not prepared to talk about it yet. But write down the day/time/general thrust of their comments. You can always complain to HR they tried to out you later if you need to.

If that sounds devious put it this way - the gloves are absolutely off with this crap. If anyone can say whatever they want about their own gender and we're not allowed to question it then so can I.

So I also don't consider myself "cis". I am non-binary (I don't wear make up and I wear trousers!) and now tell everyone I'm part of the LGBTQ community.

Collidascope · 04/12/2020 09:44

I'd be really annoyed. It's like asking your religion and then giving you the options of "infidel" or "heretic" rather than "atheist" or "agnostic." It presumes you're happy to describe yourself in the terms of a very niche ideology.

If asked, just say you aren't comfortable talking about your gender identity. Or that you're gender-free.

BrassicaRabbit · 04/12/2020 09:45

Yes have they explained exactly why they need this data?

To be fair to them, female gender ID is "cis gender female". If they'd put the option as simply "female", they would still have understood your answer as "cis gender female". They are wrongly assuming their ideology is a universally held set of beliefs.

What you are requesting is an option to state your sex, which would have to be on a separate question for it to be meaningful and not conflated with gender ID. You were right to say your gender wasn't on the list as I presume, like many feminists, you don't believe you have a gender.

It was as if they gave you a list of religions but left out "atheism /no religion" .

Mrgrinch · 04/12/2020 09:45

@Fittata

If female isn't a gender identification then what is my gender?!

Totally confused now.

Female is a gender, always has been.

If pushed I would ask why they have only picked a list of 10, and say yours isn't on there. You know, since there are now infinite genders.

Newwayofthinking · 04/12/2020 09:45

They can ask
But it's not law for you to answer

I find the term CIS very offensive, I am not a sub category of woman

BrassicaRabbit · 04/12/2020 09:46

Ha cross post collida

Mrgrinch · 04/12/2020 09:46

@Kaliorphic

If female isn't a gender identification then what is my gender?!

You don't have a gender. You do have a biological sex.

Speak for yourself, not for others.
Kaliorphic · 04/12/2020 09:47

It was as if they gave you a list of religions but left out "atheism /no religion" .

Absolutely this.

Beamur · 04/12/2020 09:47

If you're in the UK you are covered by the GDPR regulations. A business can only collect personal data from you for a specific purpose and with your consent. They need to tell you why they are collecting it and you can ask them to delete it.

Beamur · 04/12/2020 09:48

Gender is a social construct.

Alethiometrical · 04/12/2020 09:48

I am worried that my massively woke manager is going to take issue with this so I'm a bit worried about what I ticked

If your "massively woke" manager gives you a hard time, s/he is heading towards action which would be breach of the Equalities Act, which protects
sex
gender reassignment

but not cisgender woo

movingonup20 · 04/12/2020 09:49

There should always be a "prefer not to say" option on all these forms as you have every right to refuse to answer however as far as your question "what am I?" Whether you like it or not cisgender has been adopted as meaning the same as my sex, I find it annoying too and never willingly use it but legally it's correct