No "female" gender option at work, only "cisgender female"

[Fittata]

We have all been asked to update our personal information at work to list things such as our ethnicity, gender, security orientation etc. I think it is as part of a drive to be more diverse.

I am a bit uncomfortable being asked to express my sexual prefences at work anyway as I can't see how it is relevant, however I have done as asked. I am a straight, married woman.

On the gender identification section it lists about ten different genders but there is no male or female, just cisgender male and cisgender female. I ticked the option "my gender is not listed here" as I do not identify as "cisgender" as I find the term offensive and do not want to be defined as "not trans".

I am worried that my massively woke manager is going to take issue with this so I'm a bit worried about what I ticked. At the same time I feel like I should be doing more and asking HR why there is no "female" option but I am so worried at losing my job by sticking my neck out like this.

Not really sure what I'm asking here but just wondering if I have done the right thing and what to say if I'm challenged.

Absolutely agree with Sebastian we are being pushed in non binary status.

"I'm non binary but I don't believe in compelled speech" or "I'm non binary but also non narcissist".

If only I were brave enough!

Sexuality I always answer prefer not to say because it's really none of their business.

I don't have a gender identity. I am a woman because of biology.

This nonsense needs challenging.

Explain how cis gender is legally correct?

Weirdly, they also asked for gender, and the options were male, female or prefer not to say. Then further down they asked something like "what gender do you identify as?". So not question about sex, just gender and then gender identity!

At least I can honestly say that I am confused about gender!

To be honest, I wouldn't be happy with female and male listed as gender choices unless they use gender as synonym for sex which they clearly don't if there are 10 options. That would erase sex and replace it with gender identity woo even more.

In your place (assuming you don't think you have an inner female identity) I would have gone with "gender free". Then if I was willing to rock the boat a bit I'd mention that in their survey of protected characteristics they had forgotten a question about sex.

cisgender has been adopted as meaning the same as my sex, I find it annoying too and never willingly use it but legally it's correct

What utter bollocks!

What criteria do you use to decide if someone's gender identity matches the sex female?

If asked, just say you aren't comfortable talking about your gender identity. Or that you're gender-free.

I think there's a risk with the former that it implies you actually buy into 'gender identity'.

If the company genuinely wants information on sexuality etc to monitor their diversity, surely it would be better all round to do so completely anonymously?

Being coerced into including this type of thing in personal info visible to others i the company will result in under-reporting from people who aren't 'out'.

What criteria do you use to decide if someone's gender identity matches the sex female

Liking pink and dresses I'd guess. Ffs. 🤐🤐

I'm not surprised anyone is confused about gender. It doesn't have a universally understood meaning.
I find myself thinking it's a lot like religion - for many people this is a real and important thing. For others (like me) it holds no meaning. I have no discernible sense of 'inner gender'. I know what sex I am and I know what I like to wear, how I behave and so on. To me, that's personality, to others that's identity.

@Collidascope

I'd be really annoyed. It's like asking your religion and then giving you the options of "infidel" or "heretic" rather than "atheist" or "agnostic." It presumes you're happy to describe yourself in the terms of a very niche ideology.

If asked, just say you aren't comfortable talking about your gender identity. Or that you're gender-free.

This is really well worded, and sums up the whole cis-labelling predicament beautifully.

@ErrolTheDragon

If asked, just say you aren't comfortable talking about your gender identity. Or that you're gender-free.

I think there's a risk with the former that it implies you actually buy into 'gender identity'.

If the company genuinely wants information on sexuality etc to monitor their diversity, surely it would be better all round to do so completely anonymously?

Being coerced into including this type of thing in personal info visible to others i the company will result in under-reporting from people who aren't 'out'.

Yes I agree, its the same with people putting pronouns on their email signatures, surely it will cause more upset rather than less for anyone thinking about "transitioning" or who have recently done so.

Speak for yourself, not for others.

Ditto.

OP, It's your employer writing the questions so it's then who need to define the language they are using.

Gender did and does still mean male/female (bio sex) but if they are using it to mean something else then they should say so.

If you untick it online you can surely say it didn't record your selected option and play dumb. Your work appraisal is about your work not your sexual orientation or your some new HR form that has confused you.

They sound like utter numpties OP. I hope you're not stressing over this.

All this really confuses me... It was until this thread that I even realised what cis means! I female by sex and I am female by gender. The fact that that isn't even an option is outrageous to my severely unwoke self 😂

They should have a prefer not to say option...

@BrassicaRabbit

Ha cross post collida

Is there a “prefer not to say” option?

I think the box you ticked is quite right btw, but if they don’t have “prefer not to say” that’s a problem.

Oh lord
My Internet is slow and I cross posted with many!

I’d have to ask to be put on a staff training course before I was able to answer that question. Literally no one’s going to ask me that in my personal life so if they want to ask such complicated questions at work they need to provide training.

@Collidascope

I'd be really annoyed. It's like asking your religion and then giving you the options of "infidel" or "heretic" rather than "atheist" or "agnostic." It presumes you're happy to describe yourself in the terms of a very niche ideology.

If asked, just say you aren't comfortable talking about your gender identity. Or that you're gender-free.

Nicely put!

When I moved to one of the Gulf States, I was incensed that my documentation had me listed as “Christian”, because of the assumption that that’s the same as non-Muslim. I didn’t do anything, because at best, their response would have been “well, off you fuck then”. I still had a good old seethe whenever I saw it, though.

I now quite want to go back to any form where I’ve ever ticked the atheist box and redo them to say “magnificent heretic”

Yup, OP. Take it you're aware that you are protected by your sex under the Equality Act 2010. How are they planning to do equality audits/ equal pay audits if they haven't recorded sex? How can they be sure they're not discriminating against you if they don't know your sex?

If female isn't a gender identification then what is my gender?!

It's your sex class.

There are multiple confusing conflations that feed into this. The general public uses sex and gender interchangeably to refer to male and female reproductive classes; the wokesters use them interchangeably to refer to internal identities; the feminists separate them out into female (sex) and feminine (gender). And then there's the ongoing dispute over whether woman means female or feminine.

If they're asking you to choose between female, male, or prefer not to say, then they're asking about your reproductive sex class. But they're asking about gender identities (as evidenced by the dread c-word). Female may be your sex identity, but if you call it a gender identity you're inadvertently screwing us all over.

@Shedbuilder

Yup, OP. Take it you're aware that you are protected by your sex under the Equality Act 2010. How are they planning to do equality audits/ equal pay audits if they haven't recorded sex? How can they be sure they're not discriminating against you if they don't know your sex?

They haven’t asked her sex, though, have they? They’ve asked for her gender and given 10 different options, none of which she feels fit her.

They really need two separate questions, because they’re asking about two separate things, eg, what is your sex? (Only two options) And what is your gender identity? (Could be anything from this list of 10, or 100, or whichever number they deem meaningful)

Only the first question is going to give them meaningful data with which to apply the Equality Act characteristic of sex. , unless they miraculously have a large number of the 5000 or so GRCs currently issued in the UK.

Well exactly, Sophoclesthefox. That's what I said. If they haven't asked for/ recorded sex then there's no way of recording sexism expressed in lower pay rates for women etc.

Any of this personal information beyond the plainly objective - age and sex - shouldn't be enforced on official records.

Apparently the Nazis work was made significantly easier in the Netherlands because they had excellent public records which included religion. If in that era the record had included sexuality, presumably there would have been more pink triangles.

Sure, we all hope that would never happen again but complacency is foolish. If the desired goal can be achieved -arguably better - by anonymous data, then that's what should be gathered.

Whether you like it or not cisgender has been adopted as meaning the same as my sex, I find it annoying too and never willingly use it but legally it's correct

I disagree. If males can have a female, or woman, gender identity then clearly it’s not an identity that is the same as my sex.

When it comes to gender identity I’ve no idea what mine is because it’s not linked to biology and has no definitions.