Government review of gender neutral toilets

[MrsBrunch]

BBC link

Briefly, there is going to be a review of publicly accessible toilets as it is acknowledged that women are disadvantaged.

Don't know if there's another thread but you can contribute at [email protected]

If I was Felix’s mother I’d be having words... anyway, thanks OP that’s a really good link. I’ve got loads of evidence about this. I’ll be more than happy to contribute to this.

Felix is arguing for extra mixed sex provision alongside single sex toilets then? Excellent. Thanks for the link OP.

Thank you for posting this. I will also be emailing my thoughts. I absolutely hate "gender neutral" 🙄 toilets and actively boycott restaurants etc that have them, as well as telling my teen DD never to use them.

@HecatesCats

Felix is arguing for extra mixed sex provision alongside single sex toilets then? Excellent. Thanks for the link OP.

Yeah, I'd go for that! Two single sex spaces and one mixed sex space, all set up with interior cubicles that have walls descending all the way to the floor. That'd work

Thanks for the link, I will email.

So they are having a review because they realise it disadvantages women but if they keep it all they have to admit they don't care it disadvantages women so potentially we could be in the same boat having been told an official "we don't give a shit" ? But at least its honest I guess...

I hope they back up on this crap! So many establishments just changing signs on the door and leaving the mens as it is...

Sooner we go back to designated facilities the better

I think, I’m a round about way, Felix is saying he shouldn’t need to feel unsafe in the men’s which is quite right. Men really need to stop being dicks to each other.

I'm all for third spaces alongside single sex spaces for those who feel unsafe in the correct facilities for their sex and for those who are happy with mixed sex spaces.

Regarding toilet provision, truly gender neutral cubicles like accessible toilets are more acceptable than what happens in reality, which is changing the sign on the women's toilet door to gender neutral but not changing the interior in any way.

As an aside, in the clip Felix says 'anything regarding public access that doesn't include LGBT+ people, is anti- LGBT+'
But surely yet again, it is all about the T? Lesbians, being of the female sex would normally use the women's toilet and gay men, being male, would use the men's. Bisexual people can use the facilities appropriate for their sex. So really, it is the people under the Trans umbrella that Felix is really talking about, isn't it?

Indeed Deltoids

Lesbians, being of the female sex would normally use the women's toilet and gay men, being male, would use the men's. Bisexual people can use the facilities appropriate for their sex. So really, it is the people under the Trans umbrella that Felix is really talking about, isn't it?

That's right. I think Felix should run with this and start a National campaign for a third space.

That will cost money.

Businesses and venues only seem to want to spend the bare minimum - so rubbish accessible facilities - so just chance the ladies loos/changing rooms uni sex for the cost of a door sign.

Here's the details of the call for evidence. It's deadline is towards the end of Jan. I'm not sure what they mean by technical evidence.

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/toilet-provision-for-men-and-women-call-for-evidence/toilet-provision-for-men-and-women-call-for-evidence

@Deltoids1

I think, I’m a round about way, Felix is saying he shouldn’t need to feel unsafe in the men’s which is quite right. Men really need to stop being dicks to each other.

Agree, that is the core problem here and always has been....

Interesting article here from the BBC on the 'urinary leash':

How the 'urinary leash' keeps women at home

www.bbc.com/news/world-41999792

Japan is referenced in that article because they have, in the last few years, tried to get more women back into work by improving public toilet facilities for women:

“Without appropriate environments where women can use sanitation facilities, their access to social participation in schools and workplaces is restricted,” (Haruko Arimura, Japan’s minister for women’s empowerment)
(^ toldd Japan’s World Assembly of Women last year.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-20/why-japan-wants-more-futuristic-toilets-for-women

Technical info would be useful - architects etc saying how to design in four lots of toilets - you need men, women, disabled and mixed otherwise the disabled is a free for all and guess who can’t get through the door of the other three categories

We should share this across Twitter, tagging the major feminist accounts.

My local authority is using the Sheffield Hallam University project "Around the Toilet" when designing their new gender neutral toilets. In this projects toolkit one of the designs for such toilets is a mixed sex multi entry toilet block with communal hand washing. Their list of references is heavily weighted to research on disability and access for gender non conforming groups. There is absolutely no reference to any research on crime committed against women in these areas, no mention of voyeurism etc.Their Trans consultant was Jess Bradley

I'm pleased it's being described as a 'technical' review.

It means the Govt hopefully won't be caving in to ideologically driven aggression and hurty feelz anecdotal tactics.

It wants evidence.

334bu - communal hand washing? Oh great. I’m sure women will be delighted to wash out their menstrual cups in front of a bunch of men.

Their Trans consultant was Jess Bradley

Oh FFS

Weren’t they - aren’t they - under review / suspended for ‘unbecoming behaviour’

Would 'technical evidence' be regarding relative floor space and layout design? I had never really given it much thought until I saw Clara Greed's talk about it. She basically said that because you can fit more urinals into a given space than cubicles, there is provision for more men to be using the facillities at the same time than in the women's toilets where we each need our own cuibcle. Add to that the undressing involved for women and it is no wonder that women have to wait for longer.

And juggling small children/babies and shopping bags...

Felix is saying he shouldn’t need to feel unsafe in the men’s which is quite right. Men really need to stop being dicks to each other.

Yup - this isn't a women's problem, it's a man's problem.

But, as usual, women are the ones expected to fix it.

So let the men fix the issue. Not all men feel like this though - Fionne has that lovely shot of him in the gents - full frock and makeup, and said that a man asked him if he was in the right loos (Not sure of it was the same night). When Fionne said yes, I am a man - the chap looks then says ‘well you’re very pretty’ and went about his business.

Compare that to a woman asking someone if they are in the right loos and getting yelled at, threatened and in some cases beaten up and thrown out of venues.

Now remind me again, why is the issue it safety in mes loos not being addressed?