WWYD? Stereotyped gifts for my young daughter

[Thegeesearegettingfat2020]

Posting here because I don't want a load of replies about girls having different brains, being biologically programmed to love pink, etc...!

A female very close to me, I will call her Jane, has DD8 while I have DD4. We always exchange birthday and Christmas presents for our children (and always will - this is non-negotiable).

Jane has a very successful career and is a feminist in the sense that she does not believe a woman's place is in the home etc and supports equal rights for women in theory, but she is very adherent to sex stereotypes when it comes to children. I am, as she knows (or really ought to by now!), a campaigning feminist and support eg the work of Let Toys be Toys. I hate it when adults foist stereotypes on children.

I am also realistic that sadly growing up in this world children absorb the expectations around them and like to fit in. Accordingly, whereas I will never push my daughter to like stereotypically "girly" things, I am conscious that in all likelihood she will grow to like princesses and pink and dolls and sparkles once she starts school. I will always be guided by her likes and dislikes - if she truly wants a sparkly princess doll for her birthday I will get her one. However I will not encourage her being fed the message that she should want one because she is a girl.

Currently DD4 is still in that space where she has no idea what she is "supposed" to like. Her particular interests are books, animals, Lego, imaginative role play and puzzles.

For every occasion without fail, Jane sends a generous present that is a collection of the pinkest, most stereotypically "girly" things she can find. There will nearly always be a doll dressed in pink that doesn't do anything more than the doll dressed in pink she sent last time. DD4 will play briefly with the new toys for novelty value then revert to her preferred toys.

I worry about the message that the gifts received are sending DD4. I don't want to give the details in case it is outing but the last gift received was so hideously sexist (and a giant pink plastic monstrosity) that DH and I both agreed it should not be given to DD4 at all. We managed to bring it back and exchange it for a pile of books which she loved. However this is rarely possible and I worry that as DD4 gets older she is more likely to be in direct contact with Jane who will ask her whether she liked specific presents (Jane lives on a different continent and visits rarely).

Do you think there is any way to approach this without offending Jane, who is a lovely person? Subtle hints about DD4's preferred toys don't seem to work (eg "She really loves books" = best case scenario, the next present will be another doll plus a book called "How to Be a Princess (extra sparkles edition)"). I suppose as a matter of politeness I do say to Jane that DD4 loved her gifts so perhaps she thinks this is a sign she is on the right track... but anything else would feel rude!

Jane never asks what DD4 might like before buying and seems to think that doing so is bad etiquette. In contrast, I always ask what her DD8's interests are. She has always responded that DD8 is into pink, sparkles, dolls, princesses or other "girly" stuff. DD8 was always guided that way from birth - clothes saying "Little Princess" etc. I always buy in accordance with what I'm told she likes. However I think Jane takes from this that I am on board with the idea that this is the sort of stuff all female children like or should like. It adds the complication that if I told Jane straight out and in clear terms what my thoughts are on society's princessification of little girls, she would likely interpret it as a criticism of her own parenting.

I know it seems so ungrateful but I would genuinely rather Jane sent my daughter a second-hand classic book costing £1 than a giant pink plastic role play beauty salon... is there a way to navigate this sensitively? Help!

You could argue that by avoiding girly toys you are giving your daughter the impression that there is something wrong with them. In fact I think children pick up on that kind of attitude very quickly and it affects them. Feminine comes to mean weak or less worthy in their minds.

Families where gender roles are very very strict often seem to create problems, but IME you see very similar issues in families that are very focused on subverting gender roles - not allowing pink "girly" things for girls, but being very keen on giving similar things to boys, for example.

Generally it's best to treat them all as of equal worth, even when they are explicitly being feminine or masculine, and gender conforming or not.

I also think you're overreacting. There is nothing wrong with a pink sparkling tutu, or whatever it is, occasionally. I went through a phase when DD was wrong of actively avoiding traditional girl toys and had to give my head a wobble about the fact that I was pushing her the other way. I realised that I was happy for DS to wear and play with traditional boy stuff and was therefore devaluating 'girl stuff'. She's now 10 and has gone through pink and sparkly phases and come out the other side of her own choice (although I don't doubt that I have influenced that). She seems to have recognised the expectations for ink and broadly rejected them.

Unless your friend is giving presents weekly then I honestly wouldn't stress about it - just let her have some pink sparkly stuff. There are far bigger fights to have in my opinion (like the person who told 3 year old DD her shoes were boy shoes ).

Oh here's an idea - stop telling Jane that DD loved the gifts out of politeness and she might stop buying the same thing.

I think you're assigning more thought to your daughter than she's likely giving.

Without a boy at home she is unlikely (at this age) to connect that she is getting pink things because she is a girl. She isn't seeing her brother getting the same toy in blue for example.

You are running the risk that she picks up that feminine = bad by making a huge deal about this.

I suspect your real issue is that someone you thought of sharing a lot of your ideals doesn't.

I think the problem comes when girls have no access to other playthings or role models. I wouldn't say anything to Jane but might remark to DD, 'gosh Jane loves pink doesn't she. I prefer green myself but each to their own'.

I presented any make up or beauty stuff that the DC were given as dressing up and face painting. Then retired them when the novelty wore off.

I think you are being precious. You have always gone with your daughters interests, keep doing that. She's likely to go through a conforming peer or culture influenced phase between five and fifteen as she explores the world. But she has your values embedded so can make up her own mind. And of course you will accept her and her interests as they are so there is no problem.

I brought up my DC like this, MIL insisted on buying v gendered toys and clothes for DD (and DSs but due to the neutral nature of lots of "boys" toys it was less obvious. I removed most of the worst offenders (power rangers army addition/ make up aged 3) and tended to regift/chazza shop them. I feel your pain. None of the DC ever noticed.

@KnitsAndGiggles

Oh here's an idea - stop telling Jane that DD loved the gifts out of politeness and she might stop buying the same thing.

It is a good point that it's a bit silly to say DD loves the gifts when she doesn't. You can thank someone politely without actually saying you/she loves it.

Personally I would remove the stuff you hate the most, but accept a certain level of pink plastic stuff.

Request things like playdough, arts & crafts, train set, puzzles or marble runs that aren't gendered!

I had a daughter after having several boys and being conscious about not gendering toys with them, so my DD was born into a house of lego, puzzles, soft toys, trains, crafts, cars, toy kitchen and a couple of dolls.

Along the way she has gained princess dresses, Barbie dolls and My Little Ponys. I've come to the conclusion that these societal ideas about toys are so strong it is impossible to avoid, and also you want your child to fit in!
When my DD has completely free choice of something like comics, as much as I try to steer her towards the Cbeebies one, she always picks the most grotesque, sparkly Disney princess one Though her favourite princess is Moana which I'm ok with!

I think I would accept you will not be able to give your DD a pink plastic free childhood. Just ensure she has a range of stuff and feels free to express her preferences. Even if those preferences go through a pink princess fairy phase (they probably will). I am careful never to tell my daughter that her preferences are rubbish, or that "girls toys" are intrinsically worth less that "boys toys".

My daughter, who is 11, is autistic and doesn't conform with gender stereo types through choice. When she was little she had a access to a wide range of toys as her elder sibling is a boy. As she's got older she rejects overtly girly stereotyped items.

It is frustrating, to her, when relatives and friends try to impose girly things on her but she realises that the gifting comes from a good place and thanks them for it and gives the item to charity etc. The gifters have actually come to realise of their own accord now her preferences.

I personally wouldn't get to hung up on it as you may make something a 'thing' that your daughter doesn't realise, you also should bear in mind that no matter how you parent your daughter might prefer girly things of their own accord and that's absolutely fine too.

My 5 year old has a big variety of toys. Dolls that don't do anything are barely played with,no more than the other cuddly toys, baby Annabelle got a bit more attention, but isn't nurtured very much.

Her toy cars have frequent tea parties with Lego sweets, and are frequently tucked up in beds as well... plus she builds houses for them out of lego, Duplo and building blocks...

She hasn't changed after a year of preschool and a year of school, she likes pink and sparkly, so does her younger brother, although I think he's more into the sparkly and bright than the pink for its own sake.

A bright pink Lego friends set goes down as well as a helicopter or an aeroplane set, although she does really like technic with moving parts as well.

I think avoiding pink and sparkly is as bad as only buying it to be honest. I bought my DDs all sorts of toys, gender neutral, tradition 'boys' and 'girls' toys and they chose themselves what to play with. This could change on a daily basis. Despite not being particularly encouraged to go for pink and sparkly both of my two had a very pink and sparkly phase.

Let her experience all toys and please don't say anything. Her daughter enjoys those items so it will come across as critical of her choices. Just counteract it with a green truck or something. Just reinforce all toys/colours are for everyone.

There's not an issue here. Jane just really likes pink and dolls and assumes everyone else does (or at least that is what I might tell my DD if I were you). But your DD won't play with stuff she isn't interested in. Jane isn't going to change that with a once a year pink delivery.

What matters is balance. What does it matter that she gets a pink hair salon toy from one person, and gets a book from another?

People talk about allowing their children true choice, and a wide eange of options when it comes to toys......but not really. You really need to be prepared, and allow for some room that your daughter will be naturally drawn to pink, girly type things. For some girls, it's just a phase, but for others it's something they genuinely like. It's bound to happen, just in terms of sheer numbers, isn't it? There's bound to be some girls who grow up into women who absolutely adore beauty & hairdressing, just like there's some people who grow up and would love to work with animals, lead cycling tours, join the army or maybe work in interior design.

Careful with the kind of message are you sending her if you are restricting access to these things. You might actually make them more alluring, not less! Also, don't be too hasty about a career in hairdressing - machines are replacing people all the times and those kinds of jobs will be the last to go. It's pretty difficult to make a robot that can cut hair to the finesse and precision a human being can....not so with accountants and some law jobs.

@EarthSight

What matters is balance. What does it matter that she gets a pink hair salon toy from one person, and gets a book from another?

People talk about allowing their children true choice, and a wide eange of options when it comes to toys......but not really. You really need to be prepared, and allow for some room that your daughter will be naturally drawn to pink, girly type things. For some girls, it's just a phase, but for others it's something they genuinely like. It's bound to happen, just in terms of sheer numbers, isn't it? There's bound to be some girls who grow up into women who absolutely adore beauty & hairdressing, just like there's some people who grow up and would love to work with animals, lead cycling tours, join the army or maybe work in interior design.

Careful with the kind of message are you sending her if you are restricting access to these things. You might actually make them more alluring, not less! Also, don't be too hasty about a career in hairdressing - machines are replacing people all the times and those kinds of jobs will be the last to go. It's pretty difficult to make a robot that can cut hair to the finesse and precision a human being can....not so with accountants and some law jobs.

The squeals of outrage at the hairdressing toy are a particularly silly example of a knee jerk reaction of "omg it's a girls' toy- get rid of it"

Cutting and styling hair is a skill and your points are well made. There are loads of male hairdressers and most of the big- name famous hairdressers are men.

Would these posters also object to sewing, knitting or embroidery kits? They might all be far more likely to be given to girls- but that doesn't mean they don't have value or that a girl ought not to be allowed to enjoy them. The question should be why not give these toys to a boy? Not shrieks of horror that a girl has received one.

I hate the "Pink Stinks" campaign. Oh I know if you look into it they say , we don't really mean that, pink is for everyone.

Funny then that they chose the "girls" colour to denigrate as their campaign name.

I don't let my children have free choice of toys because lots are inappropriate, violent, stereotyped (or noisy) and I don't want them in my house. Just because someone gives your kid a make up set or bb gun doesn't mean you have to let them have it.

I would go down the route of

We’re thinking of getting DD the ‘recent carton’ train set, but the accessories are really expensive. If your stuck for a gift then Extra cartridges would be welcomed.

Send a text!!

I think most PPs haven't read my follow-up posts - I don't ban all things feminine or pink. I want my DD to play with a range of toys. I don't think 6 almost identical dolls that do nothing are needed to have a range of toys (and several really are almost identical - and not because they are part of a set - it feels like she doesn't put much thought into exactly what she gets. She has bought things that are obviously inappropriate for DD's age or things that are supposed to go together but don't,...it feels like the sole criterion is pink and plastic).

I don't agree with toys being colour-coded in pink and blue (or, as is often the case, pink and "normal"). There's no point repeating myself in detail if people aren't reading my posts before replying but I have personally bought my daughter dresses, pink clothes and pink toys - eg I knew she'd love a tea set so I bought her one, the best reviewed one happened to be pink, so we bought that. She also has other arguably traditionally feminine toys like a baking set. This is not about banning all traditionally feminine or pink toys.

I have never even mentioned hairdressing - and also really wanted that hairdressing mannequin head as a child!

I have acknowledged in my previous post that if I really drill down into this a good part of this isn't about my daughter but is about me and Jane. Not so much about her not sharing my ideals as such - I always knew she wasn't quite on the same page - it's more about her implicit interpretation of what my ideals are.

Also people keep referring to one present a year from one friend. I have said in my previous post that Jane is of more significance than a friend. We exchange presents twice or three times a year (as I said in my OP this is non-negotiable so please don't advise me to stop).

I do take the point that even presents twice or three times a year are unlikely to materially affect my DD (even though Jane's presents are especially generous and tend to be large). I just find the mindless pinkification and princessification of girls bothersome and I wish Jane wasn't party to it vis-a-vis my daughter. I'm not talking about exposure to a range of toys here, I'm talking about adults who impose the idea that there are girls' toys and boys' toys and girls' toys are pink, plastic and princessy, and who cares what the girls' actual interests are.

I agree in princple OP. But i really dont think it matters if one person gives pinkified toys. They arent imposing their view as they arent suggesting you should only do this too. Im more annoyed at companies than individuals.
As long as your daughter has plenty other toys that she enjoys having some pink wont matter. I agree you could make them more alluring or send the message girl stuff is bad.
My son had the pink haired hairdressing doll. He liked plaiting the hair. It was good for fine motor skills and following patterns.

have acknowledged in my previous post that if I really drill down into this a good part of this isn't about my daughter but is about me and Jane. Not so much about her not sharing my ideals as such - I always knew she wasn't quite on the same page - it's more about her implicit interpretation of what my ideals are.

It sounds like you're hurt that Jane doesn't know you as well as you thought. I think that's more of a relationship issue than a feminist one. If she lives abroad is it the obvious lack of closeness in this area that bothers you in her generic choice of gifts?

I have never even mentioned hairdressing - and also really wanted that hairdressing mannequin head as a child!

No one said you did- other posters were citing it as an unacceptable toy.

Tbh I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Jane lives on another continent and sends presents twice/ three times a year. You are acknowledging the problem is between you and Jane. You seem to want to control Jane.

If you’re really close to Jane, and Jane says she is a feminist, why haven’t you had a conversation with her about her “little princess” approach to girls? Especially since you are worried about what it says about your relationship.

Also... if you think this is a problem... just wait till you hit class parties in reception/year 1. My DDs got given a mountain of crafting kits, bead sets, colouring books, unicorn puzzles and the odd Disney princess accessory. Maybe 2 presents out of 20 were what you might call gender neutral.

I wouldn’t say anything to Jane or try to get her to change her behaviour. I understand what you mean about the stereotyped gifts but that is obviously what Jane likes. I think we have to respect that others do things differently and we can’t control them. Your DD will only play with the toys she likes anyway.

Jane sounds overbearing tbh.

I'd recieve the gifts and not give them to DD. Donate them instead. If Jane asks I'd lie and say oh yes she has played with it thank you.

I hear what people are saying re restricting the pink and sparkly makes it more alluring, but I disagree with that train of thought. IMO kids like what they like. As a parent I should be building a trusting relationship so that my DC can tell me what they like and if that's pink sparkles so be it. But I will not randomly bring or allow that stuff into my house. If and when my DC would like to have it, they can ask. No one else gets to make that parenting decision for me no matter if they're family or long term friends.

My DDs got given a mountain of crafting kits, bead sets, colouring books, unicorn puzzles and the odd Disney princess accessory. Maybe 2 presents out of 20 were what you might call gender neutral

What's wrong with crafting kits, bead sets and colouring books? These are all toys which involve active participation and a degree of skill.