Eton sacks teacher for lecture on 'current radical feminist orthodoxy'

[stumbledin]

I cant make any sense of this story as reported in the Daily Mail, and the version in the Telegraph is behind a paywall.

Quote from DM:

The class was for older students taking the Perspectives module, where they are told to critique topics of public debate.

Eton has been accused of 'prioritising emotional safety over intellectual challenge' after banning the lesson.

'The head master felt that some of the ideas put forward in my lecture – such as the view that men and women differ psychologically and not all of those differences are socially constructed – were too dangerous for the boys to be exposed to.

'I explained to the head master that I wasn't endorsing all the ideas in my lecture, but I wanted the boys to be made aware of a different point of view to the current radical feminist orthodoxy, which insists that there's something fundamentally toxic about masculinity.

'In my lecture, I pointed out that, historically, masculine qualities like strength, courage and tenacity have often been as beneficial to women as they have been to men.'

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Anyhow, there are so many elements to this, posh school, cant they manage a debate, but then it turns out it isn't a debate but a man saying women (feminists) are being unfair to men.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8991981/Eton-College-SACKS-English-master-producing-lecture-questioned-radical-feminist-orthodoxy.html

The link to the Telegraph article is in the DM one, and today they are saying local MP is urging Eton not to let woke outsiders influence them.

Unless there are other skeletons in the closet that haven't emerged yet

Bet you’re hoping there are, herecomesthesun. .

So, I went to Oxbridge, from an unconventional background. There were lots of young men there from public schools. They often struggled a bit to understand how people (especially women) thought, not from their sort of backgrounds.

I am extrapolating a bit here, but I am thinking that the course in question is to prepare young men for life outside their very expensive school and also for entrance interviews for jobs and for good universities.

Back in the day, students had to sit an Oxbridge entrance exam and write essays arguing for and against grand philosophical statements. There are still tests, and entrance interviews.

If I had a child at a very expensive school, I would not want them to be filled full of ridiculous and verifiably false ideas about the relative abilities and functions of men and women.

This rubbish will lose them girlfriends and lose them interviews and possibly stop them from getting university places, if they spout it in the wrong place. There is a growing feeling that children from state schools should have their circumstances and potential taken into account in interview, quite rightly so. In the circumstances, Eton pupils spouting inaccurate far right nonsense would be doing themselves a great disservice.

It is also quite possible that there are mums whose earnings are going towards these school fees, who do not want their children to come home and tell them that it's dad's role to provide and so on. If my children's state school taught them that, I would consider changing school. I imagine that £42k a year buys a lot of parental choice.

It's also very different from the material being supplied in other schools. This term my secondary school child has had a load of material about how slaves were treated in history, and feminist interpretation of Steinbeck in English. I was struck at how different the approaches were from my own schooldays. You would expect Eton at least to keep up.

I would sincerely hope there isn't more child abuse & etc. coming out @Andante57

''Too many people think freedom is the ability to do anything you want, instead of the discipline to not be a slave to your compulsions.''

twitter.com/Ayishat_Akanbi/status/1333801745311428615

@Searchesforhipbones I love your post on page 1.

More examples: it was men who plunged the world into two World Wars and (mostly) men who start wars all over the place and reduce whole nations to chaos.
And it is always women who keep everything going back at home, provide what stability they can to children, grow and preserve food, hold whatever is left together, and, when the war is over, rebuild from scratch.
In Germany there's a name for this: Trümmerfrauen: Trümmerfrau (literally translated as ruins woman or rubble woman) is the German-language name for women who, in the aftermath of World War II, helped clear and reconstruct the bombed cities of Germany and Austria. Hundreds of cities had suffered significant bombing and firestorm damage through aerial attacks and ground war, so with many men dead or prisoners of war, this monumental task fell to a large degree on women. (Wikipedia)

They literally cleared the rubble with their bare hands and spades and wheelbarrows. The mess made by MEN.

But I too know so many wonderful men. I'm actually in a position now where I can so I don't know a single who is not loyal, trustworthy, responsible. I know I'm fortunate not to know any assholes.

Chaos women, indeed!

^where I can say

I haven't really bothered to follow the subsequent news stories so on that level aren't up to date.

But from an early report I thought he had been reported for "hate speech" by one of the very few female staff there.

Apart from the sheer dumb misogyny of what he said, I suppose that although on one level it is a freedom of speech issue, but on the other if you are the teacher / tutor you dont abuse the role to advance your personal opinions. So if he genuinely wanted to promote discussion among the students, in his professional capacity it shouldn't have been about I think this, I know that, but being able to present both sides of the issue.

As opposed to say making a video to promote Justice for Fathers or some other MRA campaign.

I dont usual like what Camilla Long writes, but do wonder what the impact of this "lecture" would have been if Eton was co-ed. If it weren't all boys, would you be happy to have your daughter, niece, or whoever, have to sit through that and then argue back against what would probably become some sort of rat pack, with immature boys egged on by their teacher. Not forgetting most of them come from the sort of back ground where they do actually still think like this.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/your-misogyny-lessons-are-cancelled-boys-eton-cant-afford-to-play-the-dunce-t20dd5zh2

That's were I dont think it is the same as gender critical feminists being silenced. They / we aren't standing up say trans people are stupid and shouldn't be listened to. Its about how trans rights are negatively impacting women's rights.

I am sure any number of people of either sex could put together a more low key proposition that the advance in women's right have under mined men's rights! And the following discussion would be about whether men's rights are an abuse of priviledge or something they are entitled to no matter what.

So some bits I'd agree with - men are physically stronger than women, for example. The evolutionary explanation for how that came about is largely conjecture, however.

However it came about, it doesn't follow that power and dominance need to continue to be in the hands of men.

I'm not sure why he thinks he is opposing "radical" feminists. I'm just a plain old feminist. People girding us round with adjectives like radical have previously been setting up straw men, (for example "TERF". I get quite annoyed about that, transgender people get very upset about dead-naming and being referred to by their original biological gender, however they would want us to refer to that. And then they want to call us cis women).

So who are these radical feminists he is bleating on about here?

Also, where does he get the idea that society would fall apart if there weren't any men to do the farming? Or that if men were absent our life expectancy would fall by half?

Women seem to have coped fairly well when men went off to war and killed each other in the past. These days mechanisation and alternative technologies means a great diminishment of the roles for men in mining and heavy industry.

He also thought that getting married meant that women's life expectancy went up whereas it's the opposite, marriage boosts men's life expectancy and reduces women's*. That's quite well known.

It looked like a right hodge podge of unsubstantiated ideas. With a right-wing, regressive bent.

*New research reveals that while wedlock helps men to live longer, it shortens a woman's life by more than a year. Marriage helps husbands to an extra 1.7 years, but it knocks 1.4 years off the average wife's lifespan, according to the study of more than 100,000 people across Europe.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/stress-marriage-shortens-your-life-year-if-you-re-wife-5335547.html

Apologies, I'm a bit late, but here's what I've understood if anyone is still bothered.
So Mr. Knowlands has made a video about the "patriarchy paradox" and how the world benefits from "masculine men". From a non bias viewpoint, we have to keep in mind (if I'm not mistaken) he didn't state his own opinion on the theory/idea and just simply stated information/facts from the modern era and many from that of old civilisations e.g. ancient Greek etc. Again, from a non bias viewpoint, policies aside most of what he said was factually correct and just because society does not like it, doesn't mean we should restrict it.

After posting this video on YouTube, he also taught it to his class(es) which is what sparked the controversy. Many are arguing that such an ideology shouldn't be taught to young students and that they should make their own decision. However, many are also arguing that this does allow them to develop their own opinion and teaches students how to approach the world from a different viewpoint.

The problem was that Mr. Henderson (Eton headteacher) asked for Mr. Knowlands to stop teaching this idea in debates, to which Mr. Knowlands refused. This then led to Mr. Henderson firing him. Many are arguing (quite a lot of students as well) that he was not in the wrong and should be rehired. Many others are also saying that Mr. Henderson is oppressing Mr. Knowland's right to freedom of speech (which technically he is) but there is no evidence of that as his reason is that it is too difficult for young students to grasp and develop their own viewpoint etc.

Many people are infuriated by Mr. Henderson's actions as they feel he is pushing a "woke" and "progressive" agenda and changing Eton from what it once was to this modernised, liberal and neoteric school. This isn't the first time this has happened. Many people are complaining about things such as Eton's phone booth (famous for being "Eton Blue") being painted to support the Black Lives Matter movement and other things such as LGBTQ+ which has only increased the controversy.

Overall, it's almost a half and half argument. Personally, I do not agree with much of what Mr. Knowland's said, however, I believe it should be taught to young students to develop their abilities of debate and analysis, which it was aimed to do. I also believe Mr. Henderson is completely in the wrong to fire him just because the debate doesn't support everything he is forcing into the school. This is however, just my opinion from what I've read and heard, however, it does seem to be a bit more than this because I do not feel it is something that would be worth firing him for, especially whilst he would be well aware of the backlash and media attention it would attract.

Any new thoughts?

You have it the wrong way round. He didn't teach the material in class. He made the video to be part of a debate which was cancelled (I think by the head, not sure though). The head asked him not to use the video in class and he agreed. He put the video on his youtube channel. The head asked him to take it down. He asked for a reason why he should. He was not given a reason and he refused to take it down. He was sacked on this basis, which he is obviously challenging.

Apparently the Head's nickname is "trendy Hendy" as he is known for trying to impose his woke ideology on the school.

The Free Speech Union have taken on the teacher's case and have a pretty good rundown of what happened. I'd advise any teachers to join the FSU. Your union won't be defending you if anything like this happens in your school, but the FSU may be able to help.

After all the other letters, there is now one from (former?) pupils saying the Headmaster is right.

“As Old Etonians who value both free speech and gender equality, we were appalled by the intellectually feeble, misogynistic and vitriolic nature of the content. Mr Knowland’s defenders are misleadingly invoking freedom of expression. They claim ‘woke’ culture is to blame at the school and in society at large. They say that the school is trying to indoctrinate its pupils by shutting down alternative viewpoints and critical thinking.

“The reality is quite the opposite … The school is defending the importance of substantiated debate in an educational setting that abides by professional and legal guidelines.”

The letter takes issue with numerous statements in the video including a section on rape in which Knowland says “male-on-male rape in jails dwarfs male-on-female rape outside them”, and references to what is portrayed as women’s attraction to male-on-male violence and men’s role as the natural protectors of women.

One of the organisers of the letter, Jasmeet Sahotay, who left Eton in 2011, said: “We know that most Old Etonians of our generation strongly support the removal of this master, and condemn the contents of his lecture. Spreading demonstrable falsehoods to teenagers isn’t an exercise in free speech, it’s an abuse of his responsibility as a teacher.”

Thomas Oliver added: “As a gay OE [Old Etonian] my concern is that Knowland’s lecture offers no critical engagement with what it means to be masculine – to procreate? To fight and die? His one nod to gay men wearing rainbow laces was crass and pejorative and left me reeling at the lack of inclusion.”

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/dec/08/former-eton-students-open-letter-support-under-fire-headmaster

Alicia123123 - He didn't put forward a debate. He made it clear the video is his viewpoint. ie he was using his position to tell pupils that men are naturally better than women.

I'll say it again this isn't a free speech issue it's a professional ethics and competence issue.

"The alleged rationale behind Mr Knowland’s dismissal, as far as it has been made public, is that Mr Knowland refused to remove his 30-minute YouTube teaching video following a complaint by a fellow teacher, thereby exposing Eton to potential liability under the Equality Act 2010." That's the issue - the video on youtube. Not what he was teaching in the classroom. (From freespeechunion.org/letter-to-the-provost-and-fellows-of-eton-college/)

It's amazing the disinformation flying around about this. I understand there are different points of view wrt free speech, but the different claims on the actual facts is so sinister. Sinister, but oh so very familiar.

@Imnobody4

I'll say it again this isn't a free speech issue it's a professional ethics and competence issue.

You should let the Free Speech Union know that then... they'll be wasting a lot of time and money if it's nothing to do with free speech.

The video is not on a personal adult channel but on a teaching channel full of his lectures on English literature and where there is absolutely no counterbalance or links to alternative views.

In fact, the head requested the video's removal following multiple complaints from colleagues and then two separate barristers' opinions confirming that there was a chance the video would put Eton in breach of the Equality Act for harassment on the basis of sex and sexual orientation (for the misogyny and homophobia in the video).

It might, or it might not, but fresh out of two weeks in Reading Crown Court I can imagine that the school would want to take the most cautious line, with absolutely zero appetite to take any kind of legal risk.

Following the legal opinions received they had no choice but to ask, and then demand, him to remove the video and convene a panel of senior staff to decide if it was a reasonable request, and then sanction him when he refused (6 times). It was filmed on school property, he is wearing school uniform, and it was made in connection with a school course. It's also clear that it's his own views, he's not playing devil's advocate presenting other people's views to provoke debate. There was no way the school wasn't going to be associated with the video, or that it wasn't going to have an effect on the other staff working there to see it. There are a number of comments around the papers from other headmasters of secondary schools saying that they would have been obliged to do exactly the same as the Eton head in those circumstances - I saw one from the head of Westminster and another from the head of Bryanston, both in the Telegraph.

I assume he's been promised some job by Toby Young and the FSU or some right-wing OE in return for losing his job, otherwise he won't be doing very well on the "protect and provide" side of things. Since he asserts that's 2/3 of masculinity, will losing his job mean he becomes 2/3 female

It was filmed on school property, he is wearing school uniform, and it was made in connection with a school course.

Okay, if that is what's happened, I can see why people are arguing it's not a free speech issue. It would seem mad of the FSU to take this on if that's the case, though.

I don't know but conjecture is that Toby Young, free school founder, is behind it all, cynically using this guy's case not to help the teacher or to defend free speech but to attack the school's foundation - and lo and behold, see now the FSU writing to the Charities Commission to demand the removal of Eton's charitable status.

You can see even in 2018 Toby Young complaining about private school charitable status: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/14/britain-creeping-closer-dream-affordable-private-schools/

Also don't forget that Toby Young himself was fired from the charity to promote free schools, as well as a government school quango, for misogynistic and homophobic social media fuckups of his own: www.businessinsider.com/here-are-all-the-sexist-tweets-toby-young-has-just-deleted-2018-1?r=UK

This is why I haven't joined the FSU although tempted, because of Toby Young.