Eton sacks teacher for lecture on 'current radical feminist orthodoxy'

[stumbledin]

I cant make any sense of this story as reported in the Daily Mail, and the version in the Telegraph is behind a paywall.

Quote from DM:

The class was for older students taking the Perspectives module, where they are told to critique topics of public debate.

Eton has been accused of 'prioritising emotional safety over intellectual challenge' after banning the lesson.

'The head master felt that some of the ideas put forward in my lecture – such as the view that men and women differ psychologically and not all of those differences are socially constructed – were too dangerous for the boys to be exposed to.

'I explained to the head master that I wasn't endorsing all the ideas in my lecture, but I wanted the boys to be made aware of a different point of view to the current radical feminist orthodoxy, which insists that there's something fundamentally toxic about masculinity.

'In my lecture, I pointed out that, historically, masculine qualities like strength, courage and tenacity have often been as beneficial to women as they have been to men.'

.
Anyhow, there are so many elements to this, posh school, cant they manage a debate, but then it turns out it isn't a debate but a man saying women (feminists) are being unfair to men.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8991981/Eton-College-SACKS-English-master-producing-lecture-questioned-radical-feminist-orthodoxy.html

The link to the Telegraph article is in the DM one, and today they are saying local MP is urging Eton not to let woke outsiders influence them.

''Men Who Hate Women'' by Laura Bates provides more context to the wider issue and helps explain why 'free speech' is a problem when that speech is being used to groom and radicalise boys.

Yes thats the one, I don't quite know what to make of it.

I didn't have Eton College down as a hotbed of radical feminism either. its all just very bizarre.

@DrDavidBanner

Yes thats the one, I don't quite know what to make of it.

I didn't have Eton College down as a hotbed of radical feminism either. its all just very bizarre.

I highly doubt it is anything of the sort. His video is just an MRA rant with virtually no fact-checking or referencing. He wants to show that the womenfolk have gone too far with this equality nonsense. That DM article really lays it on too saying how talented his wife is but how she chose to let her husband be the breadwinner and live a traditional life. Well woop de do, how wonderful. Presumably it proves Mr Knowland’s point that women are just hardwired to want to stay at at home and let the menfolk do the important stuff. Given his propensity to put his foot in his mouth and risk his children’s home for the sake of his YouTube channel, maybe it would have been safer if Mrs Knowland had been the breadwinner as she may not have got herself fired.

If I made a video where I said that actually racism is inevitable and that black people are underrepresented in high status jobs because they are just hardwired to prefer lower status jobs and that equality is bullshit, I would ABSOLUTELY expect to be fired for it, regardless of free speech. And if I was given a chance to rectify it, knowing that my family’s home would be put at risk if I didn’t, and I still chose not to, I’d be an idiot.

What this guy is preaching is biological-essentialism. You cannot agree with him and claim to be ‘gender critical’ because gender critical means that you are critical of the social construction of gender (something he claims doesn’t exist).

Ah, he has plans of being a cut price Jordan Peterson!

Of course, and that's why he's getting all the endorsement from DM

Definitely. They just love a feminist-bashing article and so do their readers.
He’s basically saying feminists are pro-pedophilia whereas masculinity is the very antithesis to it. Weird that it’s predominantly blokes who abuse their kids then isn’t it. The guy is such a tool. I’d be very disappointed if I paid a fortune for my child to be taught by him. He just comes across as so thick, inc the clip on his channel of him lifting super heavy weights. He seems pretty insecure about his masculinity actually.

They sure do, and making up illogical nonsense that can be debunked in minutes, which people seem to lap up for some reason.
I would be concerned abut him spreading that kind of nonsense to boys who by virtue of being at a boys boarding school don't generally have day to day interactions with girls. These boys are training to be our political and corporate leaders so I can understand why the headmaster would find that kind of propaganda dangerous.

Yeah me too. As well as glorifying an extremely violent beating that was done in retaliation of one man sexually assaulting the other’s girlfriend. Complete with an explanation that women just love it when men are violent to one another and get into fights over them. It’s all biological apparently and it means that women are the ones with the real power. Sure, I can’t think of a greater turn-on personally than seeing my man break another man’s nose because he violated his ‘property’.

Oh searchesforhipbones HEAR HEAR

@Searchesforhipbones

And breathe.

Lol. I like his clinical lectures, but don't like the regressive, sexist, patriarchal, 'hysterical women out of control' nonsense. It's parroting the largely monothiestic, dualistic type religious view that women, deep down, are wild haridans who need to obey and be supervised and controlled by the males in their group.

Like you, this is not the norm in what I've seen growing up. Women do so much mental labour, do so much organising in families. They're the ones who suffer the most when societies aren't peaceful and ordered.

The Daily Mail seems to think it is Stonewall Training that has caused him to be sacked for wrong think!

" ... Eton is committed to diversity. At the height of the Black Lives Matter protests in the summer, the school announced it would be 'decolonising' its curriculum. Boys are shown a film about a trans man who conceived and gave birth, and the school hosts workshops run by a gender equality charity.

So perhaps Mr Knowland should not have been as surprised as he was at the reaction to his lecture. ... "

Well I'm assuming it was Stonewall which genuine gender equality charity would think showing a trans man (ie a woman) giving birth was proving gender equality?

It seems so stupid. To be told not to do something and then to do it,even though it would jeopardise the family. He was defending an MRA presentation: not a hill to die on.

I have very strongly held views but would not jeopardise my job and family (and career, the DF mentions not being allowed to teach any more) for this issue.

I can only assume he feels he can build a career on the back of this. But, he will be next week's chip wrapper and the crowdfunded is not exactly rocketing, given that he has such wealthy MRA supporters.

I mean I'm sure Eton pays lip service to diversity but it's very much a traditional boys' boarding school and I doubt that it's full of wokeness.

I am guessing that we will see Mr MRA doing his rounds on breakfast TV from tomorrow. He's looking to raise quite a sizeable chunk for legal fees but given that his wife doesn't work and he has 5 kids to support, isn't it better for him to try to salvage what's left of his teaching career? That would mean taking down his youtube channel and trying to find another post somewhere else. Dragging your former employer through the mud in public doesn't look that great to prospective employers.

Everything RealityNotEssentialism said.
Thank you for your patience and clarity.

Have found the video and it is actually 2 months old.

From the first few minutes of that lecture it's clear he's just a pound shop Jordan Peterson.

If he's been sacked solely for having the views he expressed there then it's terrible. The same principles which should protect us should protect him and their violation is always a worry.

But in what possible context would giving that lecture to any students be OK? (Unless each lecture in the course was from a polarised position and he gave the opposite one the next week)

So he's not been sacked for having stupid views but for foisting them on kids.

And also publishing those stupid views on a YouTube account which mentions his employers name.

He's got another article in the DM this morning. It turns out the school gave him 6 chances to remove his video and he refused. They took legal advice and the opinion was that the video breached equality law (not surprised) yet he still refused and eventually they had no choice but to dismiss him.

This man is an idiot. He has put his wife and children's home at risk for his own selfishness and arrogance. I would be so angry if he were my husband and, no, my anger would not be at the school 'restricting his free speech'.

If he's been sacked solely for having the views he expressed there then it's terrible. The same principles which should protect us should protect him and their violation is always a worry.

I disagree that this is worrying or terrible. When you work for a school, you have to hold yourself to a higher standard than many other professions. You cannot bring the school into disrepute. Being reprimanded for things you say or do is not always a violation of free speech. Free speech has boundaries. If this guy had made videos making sweeping derogatory statements about certain ethnic groups or followers of certain religions, this would be a clear violation of equality law (which the school is bound by). This was making sweeping derogatory statements about women and similar principles will apply. He mentioned the name of his employer on his channel so his association with the school was clear.

If I was a parent who find out that my child's school teacher was publicly promoting these views, I would make a complaint. But this dude now has Toby Young and the Free Speech Union acting for him so we'll probably see him on some reality show sooner or later and his wife will probably release an album.

I am glad he got fired for this offensive rubbish.

FFS. You realise that's exactly the argument used against women who say things men don't like. How the hell can you defend women's rights if you think only people you agree with should be allowed to speak? You are no better than TRAs if this is what you argue for.

@queenofknives

I am glad he got fired for this offensive rubbish.

FFS. You realise that's exactly the argument used against women who say things men don't like. How the hell can you defend women's rights if you think only people you agree with should be allowed to speak? You are no better than TRAs if this is what you argue for.

He got fired for disobeying a request from his employer to take down material that breached the law. SIX times.

How on earth do you think that free speech means that you can say whatever you want when you work FOR A SCHOOL?

Would you honestly be defending him if it was a racist video? Or is it only okay when it’s misogyny?

Oh and this is not the same as women being reprimanded for being gender critical because those views do not seek to denigrate another group and label them inferior. And if a woman was asked 6 times by her school employer to remove a video that had been judged offensive and in breach of equality law by lawyers, I would feel exactly the same about her losing her job.

Eton parent here. From what DS has told me, it’s an HR discipline issue that’s been “spun” into a media issue because the teacher concerned fancies himself as a media don and is now keeping some questionable company. I know I’d want my son kept as far away as possible from Toby Young, certainly.

The video’s contents seriously pissed off some of the female teachers, many of whom are convinced he’s using “debate” to thinly conceal his own views, based on past incidents. You can’t work effectively in any environment where you’re at loggerheads with your colleagues, particularly when the issues at stake are subject to legislation.

He was told repeatedly that social media was not an appropriate forum for a school lecture and deliberately undermined the school’s policy on this on multiple occasions. If you can’t trust a master to follow the rules, how can you ask the boys to do the same.

He and his wife are very popular amongst the boys because they’re young and trendy, in contrast to the more avuncular figures elsewhere in the school. I don’t want his charisma being played to manipulate my son’s critical thinking skills while he’s still too young to realise that’s what’s happening.

@SerenadeOfTheSchoolRun

But what about free speech and debate? Do you genuinely agree that making this video is a sackable offence? This is a part of the cancel culture which is the same culture affecting gender critical people and their job security.

Free speech applies whether you agree with what is being said or not.

Exactly.

Thanks @trike20 it’s good to get an insider view and what you say doesn’t surprise me at all, especially the bit about courting the media. I know his type and it sounds like he has brought all this on himself and how he thinks all this media attention will give him his job back is beyond me. If you repeatedly refuse to do what your employer tells you, how can you expect to keep your job? I hope the school doesn’t back down due to his popularity. And sympathy with the parents and the female teachers. I wouldn’t want to work with this prat either, nor have my kid exposed to him.

@Wildswim he wasn’t sacked for making the video. He made the video and it breached equality law. He was given six chances to take it down and warned that he would lose his job. He refused to do so and lost his job. Do you think that free speech entitles you to do or say whatever you like at work with no consequences? Even if your employer warns you repeatedly?

Why does this not surprise me at all? Thanks for the inside view @trike20

You can't argue for free speech only for the views you're not personally offended by. Well you can, but it makes you a hypocrite.